Phyllis: 0:00

So if you can calm things down and you can feel safe, It gives you the opportunity to explore more, to learn, to grow, to pursue things that you might dream of doing, but something holds you back. And that something that holds you back, I can help people overcome with tapping.

Cody: 0:32

Please welcome Phyllis Ginsburg, an author of Brain Makeover, a weekly guide to a happier, healthier, and more abundant life. Known as a survival to thrival expert, Phyllis has garnered a loyal following of working professionals who have found greater happiness and reduced stress through her guidance. With over 30 years of experience as a marriage and family therapist, Phyllis brings a wealth of knowledge in positive psychology, brain research, and EFT tapping to her practice. Her expertise allows her clients to make lasting profound changes in their lives, quickly shifting from stressful thinking to achieving calm, clarity, and creativity. This transformation leads to significant improvements in the quality of lives and work, often in a single moment. Phyllis own journey to a happier, calmer, and more prosperous life began during her former career as a court expert for high conflict divorce cases in 2005. Faced with overwhelming stress, she utilized her survival to thrival methods to overcome burnout and create a new life and business filled with happiness and hopefully success. Today, she is committed to guiding her one on one clients and workshop participants on the path to sidestepping stress and burnout, enabling them to create better lives and more fulfilling careers, regardless of life's demands. Let's dive into this enlightening conversation with Phyllis Ginsberg as she shares her insights and wisdom on achieving happiness, reducing stress, and reclaiming our health and well being. Phyllis, welcome to the podcast.

Phyllis: 2:09

Thank you for having me, Cody. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Cody: 2:14

Yeah. And it resonated so much with me, your book on this concept of trying to reshape and have a new mindset because we all experienced these periods where we're on this path and we feel this overwhelming sense of burnout, this stress, this anxiety, this this questioning our whole life's purpose up to that point can you take us back? to 2005? When you were doing this job and you started to experience this feeling of burnout in every area of your life, what did that feel like?

Phyllis: 2:45

it was debilitating I think that what you're bringing up is so much more rampant today than it was in 2005, or at least now it's being talked about. When I was working doing child custody evaluations, which was a big undertaking. Took a lot of time and effort and energy. I was working 12 to 14 hours a day seven days a week plus Making sure that my husband and two kids the dog and the cat had what they needed and where they needed to be and so Progressively, as I said, yes, to more and more work, it wasn't the work. I love the work. It was, it was a really good fit for me, but as I said, yes, to way too much work, I slowly lost myself and the things that sustained me, the things that brought me joy and happiness and had me feeling good. And I noticed I would get tired, achy, irritable, I was not the most fun, pleasant person to be around and I was solely focused on. Getting the job done meeting the court deadlines doing what I what I was supposed to do.

Cody: 4:09

How did you end up in this situation? Because isn't this what you were trained for, you went to school for, you thought you wanted to have this career for, for the longest time, I presume. How did you end up in this situation and how do you think other people end up in similar situations?

Phyllis: 4:25

So for me, I didn't know what I was going to do with a therapy degree as we can finish school and then life takes us on different paths. And as we get introduced to experiences, we develop an expertise. And so I had all these experiences in my. Internship that prepared me so well to be a child custody evaluator and to deal with high conflict divorce cases. And it was much better than working with child abuse and rape cases and, and like really. Awful stuff and so the divorce stuff was tame to me. It was fun. I had a great time doing it. It was like doing a 3000 piece jigsaw puzzle and writing a report on the family with recommendations to the court. Well, I think it's enticing. This is how I think people get in this place. And I think that's what happened to me was as I got recognized for my it. Work and I can say my impeccable work because I still had perfectionism running I got more and more work. I Became very popular with the judges and attorneys. In fact the last child custody evaluation I did those parents waited Eight months for me.

Cody: 5:51

Hmm.

Phyllis: 5:51

I told the attorneys, you've got to be able to find somebody else who can do this case. And I was like, Nope, we're going to wait for you. I'm like, I can't, I can't have that much demand on me. I needed some balance. I was way out of balance, but with all this work came like good money and praise and acknowledgement, like all these things that we. Go to school for, to get a job, to be successful. So on all accounts, it looked like on the outside, it looked like I was really successful, but I didn't have time to even go spend any of the money that I was earning because I was working so much. And I think that it's, it's either the, we get some needs met, like some needs met through our work, and maybe we get all our needs met. If our home life is not providing that, a lot of people put their energy and time into work because that's where they get their identity.

Cody: 7:01

that brings up an interesting point of something I was recently watching that mentioned highest rate of suicide within the country and in a specific group of population is actually Asian Americans between the age of 18 and 25. And that's because the Asian parents tend to have this high expectation, you know, you're going to go to, to, to school, you're gonna become a lawyer or a doctor, and it creates the sense of pressure and already Asian Americans, they have to uphold this perceived impression that they're smart. And so that adds. extra pressure to perform better than their peers, and it makes life very difficult when you have everybody around you and your identity is built on this, this concept that you're smart and become a lawyer or a doctor because that's what your parents wanted you in order for them to see you as successful. And it just creates this inept pressure. And I think a lot of us go through life where we end up having a job that we get sucked into. And then we feel like. We can't see any way out. It's almost like we're suffocating because this is the only way that we know how to support ourselves, but simultaneously we feel trapped and we can't, we can't break free from that. Is that kind of similar to what you would say your experience was?

Phyllis: 8:13

I wouldn't say my experience was that fortunately, I have a husband who contributes to the family income and we've always had the philosophy of living under our means. So it wasn't that I had to work. In fact, I took a sabbatical and took a couple of years off so I could be with my kids before they grew up and, and get my, my brain on board and my head back on. Everything all good again, but I think for a lot of people, especially today, there is so much pressure to be who other people expect you to be. And parents, they sometimes can be, like, steering you in a direction. You got to get a degree in something that you can support yourself in to get a good job. And once you get that good job, it's hard to go back to school or to leave that job to do something that you like or are passionate about because you've got to support yourself. So survival is a huge component to this.

Cody: 9:20

What was that break point for you at which you realized that you couldn't, you can't go on like this anymore and what did you decide to do?

Phyllis: 9:30

So I remember the day that I was in my office and I, something just came over me like, I can't do this anymore. And then I decided, okay, this was. Like October 2005. And I thought, okay, by December, end of December, I am going to farm out all my clients. I'm going to just refer them to other people. I contacted the courts and I said, I resigned from my special master cases. Like I had great job security. I was in private practice, still am, but. All these cases were referred to me, so I made a decision to give up the money to give up the whole thing that I was doing as far as work, my whole identity as somebody who was. One of the top people in our county doing custody work, and when I thought December, okay, I could do that. I could dismantle this. And then I had 1 couple come in for co parenting. These people hardly wanted to sit in a room together with me. And after that session, I thought, no, 30 days, I'm out of here. And I moved it up and I've never looked back.

Cody: 10:57

Is that because you were doing therapy and then you realized you really loved doing therapy and then you decided to switch at that point once you saw out to your situation?

Phyllis: 11:07

No, I can tell you that what happened was I continued going to my continuing education for my license and to be, in the custody arena in California. And you had to jump through all these hoops and so forth. And at one of the trainings, they brought in a brain expert, and this is what set me on the trajectory. To the path that I'm on now is that they showed scans of brains of kids who grow up in high conflict and domestic violence families. And that's when like the light bulb went on. And I thought there has got to be a better way to help these people than what I was doing. And I immersed myself in positive psychology that wasn't taught when I went to school 30 years ago. And. When I put all of that together and started doing things for me in that direction, it was a game changer. And then I, I started blogging , Brain Makeover. That book first started as a blog and it came together so effortlessly. I didn't know if I would like being an author or writing or anything. And I would, I had never been a public person at all. So this was like a huge leap into something new, but it was exciting and it made me feel more alive, like I was contributing and people wanted more. And that felt really good that I could be me. And not have the pressure of all of that stuff that went with the court work.

Cody: 12:57

So what I would love to now talk about is What information you learned and what you more or less researched and discovered on your own. And I would like to start by a statement that you make at the beginning of your book where you mentioned that anxiety orders are thought disorders. And I'm wondering what you can tell me what that actually means.

Phyllis: 13:19

Okay. So there's a lot of, of what I know from firsthand experience working with people. Those remember I've worked with people who have been high in high anxiety and fear, worry, stress, fight or flight survival mode, call it what you want. That was my arena for. Probably 15 years. And when I came across positive psychology, I already was familiar with tapping. I knew Roger Callahan who pioneered tapping. Originally, it was just for psychologists and mental health professionals. Thank goodness now it's mainstream. So if you're not familiar, you might look it up. But tapping calms the amygdala, the fight or flight response. And when look for something other than what would be a past experience or a stressful experience. And this is a shift in mindset. It's a shift in the brain. I discovered that I could actually help someone rewire their brain, not just for positivity, to be happy and, cheerful. That's not it at all. But people who are happier. They're healthier, they earn more money, their relationships are better, and there's a good reason for that, biologically. It does something different to your brain and all the chemistry that goes on in your body. For example, when we're in high stress, fight or flight, anxiety, we have chemicals that are going on in our body that prepare us to fight or flee. Or freeze, it's all self protection and these, stress hormones particularly are the ones that they will go to your arms, hands, legs and feet first. So they're preparing you to run. Well, guess where your blood's not flowing to your brain,

Cody: 15:42

So,

Phyllis: 15:42

to your digestion, right? Your stomach doesn't get it. So the digestion, the immune system, everything gets compromised when you're in high stress. And I have seen more and more people in high chronic stress today than ever before. So the flip side is when we can have thoughts and feelings. And if you take. Thoughts, feelings lead to actions and they're all aligned. They're congruent. So you have a happy thought, you have a feeling of contentment or peacefulness. Calmness, and you expect a positive outcome. Now, when you go to do a task, or you are just going about your day, things flow better. You're open to opportunities. You can become more aware of whatever it is that you need. Information, connecting with people. It's a game changer.

Cody: 16:53

so EFT, that's short for emotional freedom technique. And so you started doing this EFT type of therapy with clients who had anxiety disorders and you found that it helped them have a greater sense of awareness and connection with their body that allowed them to overcome this anxiety somehow.

Phyllis: 17:16

What it does, and back then there wasn't as much research obviously as today, but when you do tapping on these end points, they're meridian points, kind of like in Chinese medicine or acupuncture, except you're using your fingers to do tapping like this instead of using needles. what happens is It calms the amygdala in the brain. So the fight or flight response gets reduced. You're not running stress hormones. There's a sense of feeling calmer and safer. Because our subconscious just wants to keep us safe. which tries to keep us from doing anything that's going to repeat a past experience. The, whether it's a failure or a situation that didn't go well, that's why have repeated patterns when we try and do something new, because our subconscious keeps pulling us back to the familiar and what is safe. So if you can calm things down and you can feel safe, It gives you the opportunity to explore more, to learn, to grow, to pursue things that you might dream of doing, but something holds you back. And that something that holds you back, I can help people overcome with tapping. When I introduce possibilities, I'm teaching a brain how to think differently. When we anchor in statements, we're giving the brain messages that the person I'm working with believes they know that it's true. But so many of us are living from our past conditioning that we don't have a clue why. We can't be successful at something that we truly want.

Cody: 19:17

So in some way you could say that our thoughts can affect our feelings, but so can our subconscious beliefs. And we're often not aware of what those beliefs are in order to recognize and overcome them.

Phyllis: 19:33

Correct. You are absolutely correct. Those subconscious beliefs are more powerful than anything else because we are designed for safety, to be alive. So if we don't know what's in there, it might be helpful to work with somebody or read books that are going to open up the, ab ability to see what is in there that could be getting in the way of being more productive or pursuing something that you'd rather be doing.

Cody: 20:09

Yeah. And I, I find the EFT tapping. So I've done it before. I did it for a few months with somebody and I found it to be very refreshing and I kind of came into it with this, Prefixed notion that this is some kind of, hippie spiritual thing, and I almost immediately judged it and I'd never had a therapy session like it, like the first time it was just incredible. And I came in and at first I was a little concerned, like whether my video worked or my microphone worked and perhaps you have a different variation of this practice, but everything I said. He repeated that. And we started doing doing tapping from from the forehead to different parts of my body. And the way that I began to understand E. F. T. And say how that compares to E. M. D. R. And feel free to correct me. This is just my assumption of it is that E. M. D. R. Which is the either the hand or the light that's moving left to right. You're trying to recall a specific trauma. And you're trying to reprogram the subconscious belief associated with that trauma. So say, there's somebody that was in my previous apartment building. They were afraid of dogs, even like a little tiny dog. So that's probably a common fear that you've seen is that there's some subconscious belief in there. that we need to reprogram so that it doesn't generate this anger or this fear response, right? That the fight or flight response. And we often don't aren't able to recognize why it's there. And so EFT is a different form of, and it can be used for anxiety or trauma, a different form of therapy in which we're trying to just program to a neutral. state. We're bringing up, say, a topic, a stressful part of our job or our day. And we're tapping. And so we're bringing up that awareness, but then we're just creating a neutral sensation is that we're just tapping. So it's trying to reprogram our awareness, but I'm going to stop talking and let you, the expert explain really, what is the difference between EFT and EMDR?

Phyllis: 22:12

That's a great question I have had EMDR. I've experienced it before and that Modality is really great for getting trauma out of the body. So whether it's like somewhere in the brain, all this stuff is stored. So EMDR is like rapid eye movement or You're following something. who

Cody: 22:36

a light. And

Phyllis: 22:37

yeah, a light, a pen. And so, that to me was, be in a neutral state, don't judge it, we're going to release it. Great. But tapping actually reprograms the brain. Not only do we release it because we're doing the tapping, but now I can give statements. And it is anything but neutral. It is anchoring in things that have possibilities. My whole philosophy is that if we can train your brain to have new neural pathways to think differently, and let's say instead of thinking about all the things that go wrong, you're now thinking about what's possible and you have curiosity thinking. That's like being two different people. And EMDR doesn't do that, but tapping sure does.

Cody: 23:35

in what way are we trying to have the shift in relation to EFT in terms of how does it reprogram this belief simply by tapping?

Phyllis: 23:46

So there's a lot of studies done that measure results. I'm not quite sure how it all works but. My guess is that what I know is that tapping does free stored emotions from the body. We have emotions stored in our tissues. By tapping on meridian points, we're releasing energy. And when we Hear new things at a subconscious level, and this is a part I think we're more open to hearing the information because we're feeling safe doing tapping. It comes. The nervous system and the amygdala and we're just more open to something different. Most people I do tapping with when I start introducing possibilities, even if it's something that they've never thought of, they might not even think it's a good idea, but just knowing that there's another way to think, it's like there's another channel. You can switch channels in your brain and start looking for new things out there. Instead of the same old thing that you've just become kind of in the groove. So now you're building new neural pathways in your brain. and that's huge.

Cody: 25:10

as I understand it, you've coached a lot of people in doing this type of EFT therapy. Now, there's a lot of directions we can go in, but I'm actually quite interested in the tapping and how it relates to productivity. Because it's something that we all still want. We want to be more productive in less time. And while we shouldn't prioritize that exclusively as a goal, I think it is relevant. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of issues with either perfectionism or other productivity related issues. I'm wondering if you have a specific example or story that you recall and what what the situation was and how EFT helped that person.

Phyllis: 25:47

wow i'll Almost every day I have amazing experiences with people. I'm wondering, can we do an experience for the audience with tapping?

Cody: 26:00

Sure.

Phyllis: 26:01

I can tell stories, but I would much rather if that's, something you want to do.

Cody: 26:08

let's do it. Let's do it.

Phyllis: 26:10

All right. So is there something in particular, like one or two things that you would say that you might have identified as a challenge to productivity?

Cody: 26:25

I think often the biggest one for me is this feeling of, of always wanting to do and know what I want to do, but then feeling kind of powerless and feeling like it's hard to always muster the willpower or the discipline in order to accomplish that thing, because I feel like I need to accomplish that thing in order to feel happy and content with myself.

Phyllis: 26:49

Okay, so we're going to acknowledge that and we'll start at the eyebrow and everybody can follow along and the eyebrow is on either side of the face starting where one of the eyebrows starts. So it's down a little lower. There you go. right. I put a lot of pressure on myself to produce and you

Cody: 27:14

a lot of pressure on myself to produce.

Phyllis: 27:17

side of the eye. I have a hard time getting myself going.

Cody: 27:25

I have a hard time getting myself going.

Phyllis: 27:29

And then under the eye, which is like under the pupil. It's hard for me to do what I think I want to do.

Cody: 27:40

It's hard for me to do what I think I want to do.

Phyllis: 27:44

Under the nose. Something is holding me back from what I know I want to do.

Cody: 27:51

Something is holding me back from what I know I want to do.

Phyllis: 27:56

Chin. I don't understand why I just can't pull it together.

Cody: 28:03

I don't understand why I just can't pull it together.

Phyllis: 28:06

And then collarbone, which is just under the collarbone. It's really hard for me to be productive sometimes.

Cody: 28:18

It's really hard for me to be productive sometimes.

Phyllis: 28:22

And then under the arm, which would be about four inches under the armpit. I would love to be more productive.

Cody: 28:30

I would love to be more productive.

Phyllis: 28:32

Top of head. I'm not sure how to do that.

Cody: 28:38

I'm not sure how to do that.

Phyllis: 28:40

And then take a big breath. Any thoughts or feelings come up?

Cody: 28:45

Yeah, that reminded me certainly how I felt. Because in some ways, it's like, they they say that a good therapist they don't give the right answers, they ask the right questions. And I think even with EFT, I find that it's more or less an acknowledgment of your underlying feelings. Things that I think we tend to, to push away, we tend to distract ourselves, we go on social media, and we're not really allowing ourselves that time to really process our emotions, on a regular basis. And I think that's where EFT allows you to do that, and I think that's incredible.

Phyllis: 29:21

I agree. And I think that as you'll see, I want to do one more round of tapping. So you can experience what possibility thinking is because we don't know what we don't know. And we need to teach the brain a different way more expanded way to function. And so that's, that's like one of the biggest pieces of the work that I do. So can we jump into that?

Cody: 29:51

Yeah, let's go.

Phyllis: 29:53

All right. So we'll start back at the eyebrow. Maybe I'd be more productive if I got more sleep.

Cody: 30:04

Maybe I'd be more productive if I got more sleep.

Phyllis: 30:08

Side of the eye. It's possible that I'd be more productive if I relaxed more.

Cody: 30:16

It's possible I'd be more productive if I relaxed more.

Phyllis: 30:22

Under the eye. I might be more productive if I put less pressure on myself.

Cody: 30:29

I might be more productive if I put less pressure on myself.

Phyllis: 30:34

I wonder if I'd be more productive if I expected To be productive.

Cody: 30:42

I wonder if I'd be more productive if I expected to be productive.

Phyllis: 30:47

Chin. Maybe there's an easier way to do what I want to do.

Cody: 30:53

Maybe there's an easier way to do what I want to do.

Phyllis: 30:57

It's possible that I don't feel comfortable doing what I want to do.

Cody: 31:03

It's possible I don't feel comfortable doing what I want to do.

Phyllis: 31:08

Underarm. I wonder what I could do differently.

Cody: 31:14

I wonder what I could do differently.

Phyllis: 31:17

Top of head. Because I really do want to do some things and

Cody: 31:23

Because I really do want to do some things.

Phyllis: 31:27

take a breath. What came up for you?

Cody: 31:32

The feeling of wanting to respond as a podcast host, but then also knowing that by analyzing every time that maybe I'm judging myself for this. And perhaps that's where this is coming from, but feeling like it's trying to answer in a way that. I don't naturally compute because I think so analytically about things that I want to analyze this in conversation about how I've kind of felt, but I'm not sure if that's what you're asking me to do or to tell you like what part of my body feels something and what I feel.

Phyllis: 32:07

Well, if you had a thought or a feeling if it Stirred up something and you feel let's say more you might feel more Anxious or stressed like oh my gosh, like There's something here that you resonate with and like, okay, I got to address that could produce some anxiety or stress or you might feel calmer. A lot of times when I introduce possibilities, people feel calmer because I've just introduced like 8 things that are possible when generally as humans, we think it. In contrast, like black and white, yes or no, there's two possibilities. Or maybe we've been raised like there's only one way to do it. And you're going to do it my way.

Cody: 32:56

So it's, finding the issues that cause us stress and anxiety or fear. And bringing out alternatives, because we often feel this sense of feeling trapped with a certain feeling or situation. And within the EFT tapping, you're providing other solutions that make it so it's not just so black and white.

Phyllis: 33:19

The very first time when I had this, it was another aha moment. I wasn't going to be able to make it to a meeting because I was flying to Southern California. And I needed to leave at a particular time so I could get picked up by a family member. And then one of the People in my group, she said, okay, what if you flew into a different airport and your sister picked you up? And I thought, wow, I never thought of that. And that's what I ended up doing. And I was able to be at my meeting and leave and get where I needed to be.

Cody: 34:02

What about times when there isn't another possibility? I mean, I presume only a certain percentage of the patients that you see have anxiety that's associated with feeling trapped in a place. is there, other situations in which EFT can be beneficial?

Phyllis: 34:22

I've used to use tapping with people with medical issues. they're dealing with health issues. There's decisions to make. So what happens when we're calmer, and this is the part about getting out of fear based thinking and survival thinking, no matter how you do it, whether it's EFT tapping or any other modality that really calms the nervous system, is that you are now receptive To new possibilities that creativity, there's, an openness to seeing opportunities. There's a sense of curiosity. You can't do that when you're in survival mode, but when we can calm things down just a bit, we can. Be more creative. We can be open to, we look at our email instead of dreading like, Oh my gosh, I've got to get through all these emails and delete them and answer them and all of those things. Now we're like, Oh, maybe there's something here. Maybe there's an opportunity. I could go on a webinar and learn something that might help me get from where I am to where I want to be. We may not make that one big jump. It might take some time to learn what we need to do to transfer a job that supports you. But you could get on the path and that's empowering so that you don't feel stuck.

Cody: 35:56

We've all heard the idiom live every day as if it were your last. And I think it's, hard to live by that motto. But the general gist is that we want to spend our lives and our days. how we want to spend the rest of our life. And so what you're saying is that EFT can help facilitate a mindset shift. Kind of like how we've all heard of that cancer patient where you get diagnosed with cancer, and then you, you see your whole life flash before your eyes. you do a marathon, you go to climb Mount Everest, you do all the things that you wanted to do prior to that experience, but felt like you, you probably had the time, so you were in no rush. And then you get the cancer removed and then you come out on the other side, cancer free, and your life is just significantly better because of the changes that you made, having this, this shock of feeling like your life is about to be over. And so is that an appropriate comparison in terms of how EFT can facilitate some form of a mindset shift to help us live, say, a happier or better life?

Phyllis: 36:59

I would say for sure, and I've worked with lots of cancer patients and the transformation they go through with an illness, especially the ones that, that really turn their lives around and. They tend to do the inner work. They deal with their subconscious fears and there's a lot of them when you've got a cancer diagnosis, they deal with the things that come up around authority figures. A lot of us have authority figure issues because we were raised as. Dependent, helpless children, and there's a lot of big people in our world when we're little, that have authority over us, and we are powerless and helpless as we become adults. We need to own our adulthood and our decision making to be in alignment more with us than the people who raised us or society or social media or all of those other things out there that say. It's not okay to be you as you are, you need to do whatever it is to be more acceptable.

Cody: 38:10

So in some way, it's like if you were bullied as a kid, that... It doesn't give you the right to bully others, but you should still accept and acknowledge that part of you that felt like it never got over being bullied as a kid. And by having the awareness to love and accept yourself and recognize that even though you have foibles, everybody has them, that that's okay that you're not perfect and that you have this problem in your life. And that sort of acceptance is part on the way to healing.

Phyllis: 38:45

Acceptance is a huge piece of healing and overcoming any situation that we are in contrast with. I call it an inner struggle and most of us, if our thoughts and feelings are not aligned with what we want to do. We have an inner struggle, so let's say that you're at a job and your boss asks you to do something and you're like, Oh, I dread doing this task. I don't want to do it. I am so like, not into it or whatever on the spectrum, right? Like, you can resent it. You can say, Oh, not this again. Those feelings, those thoughts, Are going to produce mediocre results, procrastination, what might look like laziness, you might get, somatic symptoms, a headache, uh, upset stomach, right? You're going to, your body's going to come up with all kinds of ways to react to the thoughts and feelings that you have about what it is that's expected of you.

Cody: 40:03

So EFT is something that we all have these stored up emotions in our body and by tapping on these meridian points, we're able to release that pent up anxiety and stress in some cases.

Phyllis: 40:17

Yes, and even if you did some tapping, I always tell, uh, people when I'm talking about tapping, if you, you remember the round of tapping, or you could look it up, All you need to do is do tapping and tell yourself your thoughts or your feelings. Like, I don't want to do that job. I resent it. I'm not getting paid to do that. See where I'm going?

Cody: 40:44

Mm

Phyllis: 40:45

So you could do that yourself. You can go to the bathroom, do that, calm it down, get yourself to a place of, okay, what else is possible? Is there somebody else who could do this? Can I delegate it? does it have to be done now? And. You might even get to a point where it's like, okay, it's not that bad. I'll just do it. It's part of my job. Right? So you see the progression of thought needs to be instead of here. Like I am so angry or upset or distraught over it. Now you're in acceptance of you accepted your angry. Now you can be an acceptance of, okay. I can manage this in whatever way that you choose and that's where we have choice.

Cody: 41:32

And so another perspective is having the quiet confidence in whatever situation you're in to have the resolve of knowing that. You can handle that situation.

Phyllis: 41:47

most of us are more capable than we think. We have made it to wherever you are, whatever age you are in life right now. We've survived, right? Like we've gone through all kinds of stuff. And guess what? We've learned a lot along the way, but we don't embrace our wisdom and we don't embrace our experience and the things that we can say, okay, that didn't work, but this did, or we can look at our successes. We can look at like, that went really well. But if you were brought up to not acknowledge your successes, to not overshadow or outshine someone, like there's all these messages that we got growing up to not brag or boast about ourselves and just comply and do what we do, those interfere. But if you really look back, you can write down a list of all the. times that you have persevered and succeeded. You might even write down a list. I have one client, she says, people at work just rave about me. They think I'm so wonderful. I'm just doing my job. I'm like, yeah, you have some natural skills and talents for what you're doing. We need to get in touch with our natural skills and talents. If we're in a job that we're not using anything that feels good to us, that's probably a misalignment.

Cody: 43:26

So I think you've demonstrated that EFT is a powerful technique and a great therapy that can help people who are encountering a variety of issues. Can you tell me who do you think should seriously consider EFT tapping as a modality or a therapy to help themselves?

Phyllis: 43:46

I think EFT tapping is a great like first aid kit, something to have in your toolbox, because As we go through life, we're going to have ups and downs of experiences. It's just part of life. There's going to be losses. You misplace your key or your phone and you're in stress and anxiety. You have disappointments. Things aren't going to always go your way like that's life. And if we can manage life better. And have a tool that's going to help us do that. Tapping is that tool.

Cody: 44:24

And where would you recommend people look for if they're interested in looking at EFT further?

Phyllis: 44:30

Well, I do have a video on my website, which is phyllisginsberg. com. My book, Brain Makeover has a whole section about tapping. And then if you were to go online, you can find all kinds of wonderful things that, Nick Ortner and his. Siblings, they actually put tapping on the map. They do a tapping summit. They've got all kinds of resources and research on their website and they are the tapping solution.

Cody: 45:02

And so EFT tapping, we're going to, close that chapter for now because there's a ton of other techniques and issues that you talked about in your book about trying to being a guide to helping us be happier, healthier, and more abundant, as you say. And so one of the things that you say is that our brain functions mostly on autopilot, and you say that research has shown that 95 percent of our thoughts are on autopilot every day, while 80 percent of these thoughts are repetitive and they're also negative. Can you tell me more about that?

Phyllis: 45:34

We have a brain that is super efficient and we want that because if to get up in the morning, you had to think of every single little. thing to do, like to get out of bed, to brush your teeth, to get dressed and to have breakfast, it would take you half a day. You'd have to be thinking about which muscle to move, which limb to move, all of that. So now like you can get up, you don't have to think about how to get out of bed. You don't have to think about walking, how to do any of that. our thoughts and our feelings. are programmed, we have neural pathways and the more we think in the same way, We have patterns of feeling and those get solidified. So if you're somebody who tends when you're upset to get angry, you're your default is going to be anger. If you tend to get sad when you're upset, then your default is going to be sad. We are creatures of habit for a reason, because we have these neural pathways that get developed for efficiency. With that said, the negativity bias and why it's such a high amount is because we needed to be on the lookout for problems, for survival. And this is like, from the beginning of time. We were designed, the brain was designed that way so that we would survive as a species But. We don't necessarily have that kind of need today. In fact, survival thinking is causing us more stress and more problems today than ever before. And that's part of my mission is to help people see that there is. A different way to think there's a better way to think that's more in alignment with today's times where we can be happy, healthy, and abundant, not live in fear, stress, worry, concern, all of that stuff.

Cody: 47:44

As they say, neurons that fire together, wire together. And if we form a pattern of behavior or thought that is on a regular basis and it doesn't have to be, it could be based in our, partly on our genetics or our environment, you know, the inevitable debate on that. And we can still unwind that and live that happier life that doesn't necessarily have that influence from our traumatic background. Or isn't so heavily influenced by that negative thought pattern that we've created as a function of being mere human beings who had to be on this survive, who had to have a survival bias in order to survive. But now in our, our culture, the, of high information and work overload, it's easy to form a negative mindset and wrap that mindset around that problem. To the point where you're just causing suffering every single day.

Phyllis: 48:41

So accurate. we definitely, when we get stuck in our thought patterns, we, I had a client yesterday and he said, so I'm creating my own problems. And I said. Well, yes. And the silver lining to this is that you also have the power to change that because it's all. In your mind. It's not in someone else's. You don't need somebody else to tell you how to do the change or to make the change. You just have to be open to it, get the right information, and then make some changes that are going to change your neural pathways and the thoughts and feelings that you have. It's it. I like to talk about happiness as a pattern interrupt. So in our brain, if we're running that negativity bias, if we've got negative self talk, if we've got all kinds of, let's say, Anxiety, depression, like you name it, all that stuff out there that we've done a poor job at managing. And I can say that the healthcare field has not done a very good job because rates are astronomical, but we can make a difference by interrupting patterns such as looking for things that make us happy. So if you woke up in the morning and let's say. At the end of the day, you are going to write three to five of your happiest moments of the day. Now, you have a task. You're going to go about your day and like, Hmm, I wonder what I'm going to write tonight. I think I better look for some things that make me happy. That's a pattern interrupt. You can't be looking for things that make you happy and experience them and feel stressed or anxious or worried at the same time. It's powerful, and it's so simple.

Cody: 50:42

Another form of therapy, I believe that you mentioned, is that we should rehearse or imagine or talk to ourself about something either positive or negative just for 18 seconds. Can you tell me about that?

Phyllis: 50:58

Sure. When we think about something, whatever it is, for 18 seconds, it starts building long term memory. So if you have a thought and a vision to go with it, that's pretty powerful. And 18 seconds. Begins to do that how much of our day is spent spending that 80 percent of our thoughts that are negative, a whole lot of it. So if you can have a clear intention, a goal, know what you want, know what the end result looks like, and you can feel it and picture it. Or just picture it, you have the ability to anchor in some new neural pathways that that 18 seconds starts to create

Cody: 51:54

I'm curious about the internal perspective that a lot of people have. And specific to, productivity is we put this pressure on ourselves to perform and we end up five, six years down the road where we have this job, but then we sort of feel trapped in this way. And in some ways we might be motivated to have a job or perform based on how we feel about ourselves. It's just like how often. Say somebody, criticizes or blames another person, but they really, it's really a function of how they view themselves that caused them to criticize this other person. And so a lot of the motivations that we end up having come from a place of negative emotion and non acceptance. can you tell me about what that thought process is like and how we can overcome that?

Phyllis: 52:44

that happens more frequently, I think, than any of us realize because we have this relationship with ourselves. Our identity, a lot of us don't feel like we measure up. There's so many people I work with. This guy in his fifties is so distraught. I'm not where I thought I'd be at this point in my life. And. Of course his relationship was not good, his marriage, the dissatisfaction was everywhere. And so when we don't deal with what is, and are, like, name it and acknowledge what's really going on, it's gonna leak out in... Every other area of our life. So you're going to get the, instead of necessarily blaming yourself, which teaches a good amount of doing, blaming others, criticizing others, looking for what's wrong out there. In addition to looking for, the negative self talk within himself. But both of those things happen. And I think that it's subtle for people who don't have that. extreme of clarity. He had clarity. He didn't think he was where he thought he should be. But if we really look at maybe the, thing to acknowledge is I don't want to be here or I feel stuck. And when you acknowledge that you feel stuck, now you can look and say, well, I can blame the outside world because I have to support myself and things are too expensive. And The cost of gas went up and inflation, like we can project all of our dissatisfaction onto the outer world when if we really address, like, I feel stuck, I feel trapped, I need to do something different. I don't know what that is, and I don't know how to get there and then we go to a place where you might feel helpless. You might feel sadness instead of anger and wanting to lash out you might grieve you might question. Did I make these? Decisions because I'm scared, right? Get some insight. And as we start getting insight, then it frees things up to start thinking about what else is possible,

Cody: 55:11

So in some ways build this. Identity of ourselves and this comparison to how we think we should feel can cause this underlying hatred that motivates us in the direction of trying to solve that problem. But then we become this sort of a plus personality where we're always doing all these different things, but we might be motivated for the wrong reasons and. I'm sure a lot of people, as I myself, have encountered this belief of feeling like I need to endear and I need to just put up because this is the life I've created for myself, but simultaneously That motivation coming from a negative place, whether I was traumatized as a kid or if I was bullied, for example, which I actually was, um, it wasn't a great experience as a child, but what do you say to those people that feel like they need to keep this identity because it's the only thing motivating them and an example I give are going to the gym. There's always people who go to the gym to an excessive degree and they might go to the gym. As a function of feeling inadequate or that they that they were made fun of, or they want to attract a girl. And so then they end up using this external belief to motivate themselves, but it's not always a healthy belief. That is the root of that motivation. What do you say to those people that are afraid of letting go of that? Because they're afraid that they're not going to be as productive or improve in their life.

Phyllis: 56:40

right? For a long time I had, and I didn't really know I had this belief, but I had this belief that I need to prove you wrong. I need to prove I can do this. And you just watch me, you don't believe in me today, or I don't feel like you believe in me. Just watch me, I will prove you wrong. And there's a lot of energy in that. And so when we have less than the amount of confidence. That we would like to have, or that we have in what we're doing, it's very common to think about an outside factor to motivate us, or whatever that is, we're going to prove to somebody, and that somebody could be to yourself, like, I'm going to prove to myself I can do this, but the extreme is not a healthy place to be. It'd be much better to come from a place of, I'm doing this because I want to, I'm doing this because of the benefits of, and if it's going to the gym, it might be so that I could be stronger and, healthier and in shape and keep up with my kids, right? Like there's a whole bunch of other reasons. That we might do something,

Cody: 58:04

So say I'm somebody who has a beer belly and I want to get a six pack because I see it's what all the other guys that are doing that, that they look great and I want that thing. So then I end up going to the gym as a function of wanting. I'm basically comparing myself to others, which already creates negative association. am I supposed to just accept and love this fat that I want to get rid of so bad? What's the alternative, the positive motivator that can help motivate us, but in the right direction, where we're not constantly comparing ourselves or coming from a negative place?

Phyllis: 58:40

well, that comparison thing is so big. And with social media, I think that it has just amplified it. If you could have some compassion for yourself and be able to acknowledge and say, okay, I'd love the six pack. I don't know how realistic it is. I don't know if I've got what it takes to do. What I need to do to achieve that that would be probably a really authentic Thing to acknowledge because you're speaking your truth. That's your belief instead of comparing and saying I want that. I'm going to go to the gym every day and then you set up unrealistic expectations. You go there maybe four days on the fifth day is like, Oh my, I can't do this again. Or I just want to sleep in or I don't have the energy after work. Right? And then you start making excuses and then guess what? You start feeling bad about yourself. So it's kind of like when we, when we do something that relieves, let's say something in us, like people use addictive behaviors. You go on social media, you eat, you drink, you do whatever it is that's going to distract you from feeling bad. And so putting pressure on yourself to achieve something I think can be another addictive behavior to really avoid. The root cause of whatever it is, they got you where you are.

Cody: 1:00:23

And perhaps one way of viewing it is that our mind can't differentiate between not thinking about a thing and thinking about a thing because it can only recognize the feelings and the associations we have with that. So if we say that we don't want to sit on the couch and watch and binge watch Netflix for the next six hours, our brain is just processing Netflix. And. So if we want to go to the gym and we sort of hate this part of ourselves, perhaps instead of focusing on going to the gym as a function of this hate, we should consider, well, what are the benefits of going to the gym? I want to feel happier. I want to feel good about myself. And that that's a reward is that feeling that you have after going to the gym. And so is that one? Different alternative in terms of how we can find this positive motivation is perhaps by focusing on the benefits

Phyllis: 1:01:18

So that's one way, and it might work for some people, but I think it's more complex, because if you go back to the subconscious, we may want something, but our subconscious is trying to keep us safe. So what would happen if you got rid of that beer belly and you had a six pack? Okay, you might get more attention. From the opposite sex, and that might feel scary. You might become healthier and more attractive than anyone else in your family or your siblings or your best friend, and that might create jealousy or problems in a relationship. So, It's more complex than just thinking positive about benefits.

Cody: 1:02:08

in where does meditation or mindfulness come into this?

Phyllis: 1:02:13

Good question. So meditation, there's so many different variations of meditation. There's silent meditation, where you're just with your thoughts or trying to not think. And I don't recommend that for people that can't turn their brain off. There's guided meditations. Guided meditations Offered the most success for people who are trying to rewire their brain or have different thoughts because somebody is guiding you on a journey to think or experience something. And that's what we need. We need to think differently. We need to experience something differently to change our patterns. Mindfulness, or we might say awareness is key to figuring out what what it is that's going on. You could be mindful of the amount of time that you are watching Netflix. You could sit down with a bag of chips and mindfully eat them, or you can not mindfully eat them. And before you know it, the whole bag's gone. And like, well, I don't even remember eating more than two or three. The more mindful we are as we go through our day about our thoughts and our feelings, And the actions that we take, it gives us information to course correct or do something different. I often will say small steps in the direction that you want to go in will produce big results over time trying to do something like. Eat the whole elephant in one bite doesn't work. Doing something extreme generally doesn't work. It's too big of a leap for your subconscious to accept.

Cody: 1:04:09

And I think often people find themselves encountering the same situations over and over again. I think an example is, say, amount of people that just. Place their keys and their wallet whenever they come in from a long day at work, they might place it in a bunch of random spots around the house, and then they forget where they left it, and then they have to go looking around the house for this one thing. That's an example of, say, an environmental... Habit change that you could make that requires some conscious effort to change this habit, but an easy resolution is just having a bowl or a key chain hanger that every time you come and you just put that key in that specific spot. And so you will never, misplace that. And I think when it comes to having snacks and eating more mindfully, I think there's this one concept of having this mindful eating and having that awareness in the moment to stop yourself from overeating. But we can also do another environmental hack. And so what I actually bought on Amazon are little snack bowls. They're these little snack bowls that are made for kids. And you can, what I'll end up doing is if I'm having a snack, I just put that snack in that snack bowl and it's so tiny that it forces me to go back to the kitchen and refill it, which creates this obstacle and that obstacle, that distance between having to get that next dopamine hit is bigger so that I'm more likely to make a mindful choice as to whether or not I'm actually hungry or am I choosing to eat the snack because I'm stressed.

Phyllis: 1:05:37

I love that. of what I learned early on for myself and that I talk about with clients is pre planning. If you plan, whether it's your food or your work day, I will get a piece of paper and write down. Specifically what I need to do each day, what time I might need to leave the house so I'm not late and what time that anything like an activity or a client or something that's happening so that then I'm prepared. I'm never caught off guard. If I look at my calendar ahead of time, you would be mindful to know what's happening in your day or what you're going to put in your mouth if you preplanned what you were going to have or what's going to be available. no more. Do you need to? Go to a refrigerator that's empty like, oh, I didn't go to the market because I forgot we're out of food and there is something for people who have Addictions and who will go out and actually purchase alcohol There are so many steps along the way that you could make a different decision Especially if you have to leave, like you've got to put some shoes on, you might have to dress and like get dressed, drive somewhere, go walk in the store, pay for it, come home, right? Like, there's so many different points that we could look at and say, maybe I don't need to do that and that's all mindfulness awareness and we can do that with almost anything like the snacks. or a behavior.

Cody: 1:07:30

the alcoholism is personally impactful have a book and it's called from foster care to millionaire because I grew up in a very traumatic and, not so great household, but both my parents were actually alcoholics and they died because of it. And there, there were times in which I would try and pour my mother's vodka down the drain, but she still went and she bought it again. And there was a point in my childhood in which I realized that you can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped. And I look at it now from this perspective of this other trainer and therapist that I previously worked with. And from what I understood and see now is that my mother didn't love herself enough to want to change. She wanted to change, but she had so much hate for herself that it kept her... in that habit chain and the new perspective I have is that say you're somebody who feels like you're unlovable and you can't seem to love yourself powerful statement that somebody said to me is that if you can't love yourself, then love the fact that you can't love yourself

Phyllis: 1:08:38

I love that. I haven't heard that one but. Acknowledgement is the first place. And to get to a place of acknowledging that you don't love yourself or you hate yourself or you hate your body, whatever it is that It is so distressing to you is probably what's getting in the way of moving forward in a productive way, in a way that's going to get you what you want, no matter what it is that you want, whether it's health or wealth or a relationship, all of those things get blocked when we have Such a negative self image of ourselves, and then we think other people view us that same way.

Cody: 1:09:25

and your book, it really talks about trying to create . Lasting changes that we can carry for the rest of our lives and creating these healthy habits Are there any modalities or things that I left out in the conversation?

Phyllis: 1:09:42

Well, the book has 52 weekly readings

Cody: 1:09:47

Yeah, we'd be on here for a while.

Phyllis: 1:09:49

Yeah, that you wouldn't have to do all of them. You can just find a few that work for you. And each one is like 2 or 3 pages and then they have some things to do. So you can actually experience what is in the reading. And so for some people like me, I didn't grow up with the luxury of fun, play and enjoyment, because my mom was ill, From before I was born, she had arthritis and migraine headaches. So I became like parentified and did most of the cooking and cleaning and taking care of her and all that. And so there are topics in there about fun, play and enjoyment. There's topics about feelings. So many of us were taught to not feel or certain feelings weren't acceptable like anger or sadness So there's, there's so many simple ways to look at starting to change your neural pathways so that you can think differently about whatever it is. And there's a glossary in the back that actually has, I think it's 5 different things you could focus on that would address specific things. So you could. Start with that or start from the beginning. It's very user friendly. And if you found one gem that made a difference, like the happiest moment of the day journal, that's week one, it would help significantly. Every area of your life,

Cody: 1:11:33

So there you have it. There are specifically 52 small steps, probably more that can create a consistent practice to help us lead more significant, or to have more significant and sustainable changes to our lives and well being. If you haven't already, check out her book. It's called... Brain makeover.

Phyllis: 1:11:55

I have a,

Cody: 1:11:55

it on Amazon or audible.

Phyllis: 1:11:58

it looks like this. I don't know if that's backwards to you.

Cody: 1:12:01

No, it looks great. So we'll be sure to put that in the show notes and Phyllis Ginsberg, it's been a pleasure having you. Thank you for joining us today.

Phyllis: 1:12:11

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.