[00:00:00] Leanne: Religion has faltered. Perhaps we could say by and large, because it became about dogma, it became about a middleman. It was no longer connecting the individual to the cosmic in the way that yoga lays out straight and clear in that first sutra. This is Tru. This is the Yama. This is the administrator.

[00:00:22] Leanne: Pure consciousness is administrating this, and you can't steal from it. You can try. We can try, but then now that's how we suffer. By not understanding where the balance and harmony take place. That's how we fall off into the realm of suffering.

[00:00:51] CODY: Welcome to mind Hack. I'm Cody McLean. In today's episode, tackles one of the most fundamental questions we face. How can we better [00:01:00] understand our minds to live more fulfilling lives? My guest is Dr. Leanne Whitney, a leading researcher in comparative psychology who has dedicated her career to bridging western psychological insights with Eastern wisdom traditions.

[00:01:15] CODY: With her PhD in depth psychology in years of clinical experience, she's helped countless people transform their relationship with anxiety and stress. Her work has earned recognition in both academic circles and practical therapeutic settings in her book Consciousness in Young, in Patanjali. I'm gonna have to redo this intro now, but can you please help me clarify, how do you say this word, Patanjali.

[00:01:40] CODY: Patanjali. Yes. Consciousness in young and potentially offers fresh perspectives on how ancient wisdom traditions can address modern challenges. What makes Dr. Whitney's approach particularly valuable is how she combines Cora Young's psychological frameworks with the profound insights of yoga psychology.

[00:01:59] CODY: While these might [00:02:00] seem like abstract concepts, she breaks them down into practical tools that can help us understand why we get stuck in patterns of anxiety and self-doubt, and more importantly, how to break free from them. In this conversation, we'll explore proven methods for working with your mind rather than against it.

[00:02:16] CODY: Whether you're grappling with daily stress or seeking deeper understanding, Dr. Whitney's offers clear, actionable insights that can help you shift your perspectives and create lasting change. So without further ado, please welcome Dr. Whitney. Welcome to the podcast. Ah, thank 

[00:02:32] Leanne: you Cody. Nice to be with you today.

[00:02:34] You know, I was listening to to Sam Harris recently, and. He was talking about meditation, and he said something that really stuck with me. He, he pointed out that how bizarre it is that we spend our entire lives in our own minds, yet most of us have no idea how they actually work. It reminded me of the Kara Young quote, where he says, until you make the co unconscious conscious, [00:03:00] it will direct your life.

[00:03:01] And you call it fate. And, um, what what I found interesting though is I've done a lot of work and I've learned how to handle, handle my own anxiety pretty well. And I keep seeing this pattern. And with, with friends, the, the more they try to control their thoughts or force themselves to think positive, the more stuck they seem to get.

[00:03:22] And it's kind of like a, it's kinda like a Rubik's cube that you're trying to solve. Blindfolded, folded, I think. And I would like to, to look at, and I know that your, your research has looked at Corie Young's insights with Eastern Wisdom. So, uh, what made you start exploring the paradox of, of how we, uh, try to control the mind?

[00:03:43] And what surprised you most about these, these, uh, different traditions? 

[00:03:46] Leanne: Oh boy. Cody, there's a a lot there. I kind of wanna go, uh, I wanna start with what you were saying about, um, the mind and controlling the mind because so much of it's also about the body. [00:04:00] The body is informing the mind, and depending upon our childhoods or, you know, our start out of the gate, it depends on whether we really feel safe and if we don't truly feel safe in the body, our nervous system is running in a fight flight or sometimes even a shutdown and a freeze in ways that actually the conscious mind hasn't become aware of yet.

[00:04:30] Leanne: Some systems of thought. We call that vertical integration because the body is so important to our ability to really feel integrated, feel that wholeness walk in balance, balance and harmony are, are two key terms I'll probably use throughout, um, our dialogue today. Um, you know, yoga has asana, it has the physical practices.

[00:04:56] Leanne: It works with the nervous system. So the [00:05:00] mind and the nervous system and the breaths are, uh, linked in a way that as human beings, we will never change that. That's one of the givens. What we can do is work with it. So we, if we notice that we're working with mental thought patterns, um. Our anxiety is still running sometimes, and again, I don't like to speak in absolutes, but that means there's something in the body more an implicit memory that we haven't actually been able to get to yet.

[00:05:36] Leanne: And of course, meditation can get there. Um, but breath work in particular really understanding like that we need subdiaphragmatic breaths in order to, uh, clear the nervous system of any of the binds of feeling unsafe. Is this making sense where, where I'm going with this so far? 

[00:05:58] Yeah. And so I, I guess in some ways [00:06:00] you're saying that, that we, we often have trauma and this trauma manifests in physical symptoms that kind of unconsciously affect our day-to-day life.

[00:06:08] I. And you propose that one of the best ways to help resolve that is through breath work. Yes, 

[00:06:15] Leanne: absolutely. Walking, also movement for sure. But that link between the mind and the breath and the body. So ultimately we can be grounded and stable in our body on the earth. It's our minds and our culture tend to move so fast, and especially with tech today, which I'm a huge fan of.

[00:06:37] Leanne: Like I love Chat GT four. Um, and we also want to be very mindful in how the mind really ultimately is a tool that we as a system wanna be able to master so we can send our mind out on the missions [00:07:00] that are going to optimize our lives, not bring chaos or rigidity or some kind of early dissolution. So I'm a big fan of, uh, like I said, balance, harmony.

[00:07:13] Leanne: Another word I really love is mastery. Do we have the mastery to send our mind out on the missions that we want to send it out on? And if not, uh, more often than not, it's vertical integration that's impaired, which means that the body mind connection hasn't, uh, been made consciously enough yet that we haven't brought into the prefrontal cortex or conscious awareness how the body's nervous system is running.

[00:07:45] Leanne: Um, and that that ability to integrate, be aware of the body mind connection is fundamental to overall healing and overall optimization. 

[00:07:59] [00:08:00] And, and so what kind of healing would you say? I. Is really relevant for somebody who is experiencing some form of trauma. And can you define kind of the, the people that you work with even, uh, what are they experiencing and what do you hope to solve through this mind body connection?

[00:08:16] Yeah. A 

[00:08:16] Leanne: lot of people, absolutely. Anxiety, stress. Um, boy, the cultural norms of, I wanna say predatory capitalism. Um, I, I'm in no way against capitalism. I, and I do think it's a system, it's part of culture, and it can run on again in a more unconscious way where we're not all contributing to it in a way, first and foremost, that makes us feel safe and secure.

[00:08:50] Leanne: So, uh, for any of my clients who are looking for that harmony imbalance, um, always breath work, [00:09:00] always a warning practice. Like how do we start our day? Um, because like we were talking right before we started recording self-realization, because the eastern liberatory practices have been part of my life for over 25, 26 years, self-realization is ultimately the bigger aim, where self means pure consciousness, that our, the seed of our awareness is yoked, harnessed to the seeing the seer and the scene are working in harmony.

[00:09:33] Leanne: And we have to yolk our mind to that level of, uh, pure awareness. And so always with my clients, a morning practice, a breathwork practice becomes imperative because part of healing is to make sure that the mind is harnessed into, again, this deeper I just, pure awareness, pure consciousness. Some people, [00:10:00] uh, they.

[00:10:02] Leanne: Shy away from the term pure. But pure just means it sits inside itself. That's what the eastern liberatory teachers in particular, yoga ante, that's what they point to. This idea of non-duality, that we are not isolated and separate. We are an expression of the one braman. Uh, is, is the term that's used in that system of thought and translation can be pure consciousness, God, um, the absolute nda, and we are an expression of that.

[00:10:36] Leanne: So that harnessing that yoking into that kind of depth is first and foremost primary. So how do we start our day mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually where we're harnessed to that as opposed to the culture? That's not to make the culture wrong, it's, it's like the set inside or the subset inside the set.

[00:10:58] Leanne: We can't, you make the culture [00:11:00] before . If pure consciousness, al already, the harmony in the balance of our perceptual system is going to be off balance because the order of operations, if you will, is off. So those morning practices become all important. 

[00:11:19] I, I, I get that culture adds another layer to a consciousness that kind of manipulates what we think that we want.

[00:11:27] And I know that breath work is one of the things that we can do as a means to help kind of create this mind body connection. But I'd like to kind of pull out for a sec and actually look at ego because I think there's, there, there's a difference in how western psychology use ego. And in Buddhism, I think it's not really it, I don't know if it, it really fully acknowledges ego, but I'm wondering if you can just explain what our, how our ego plays in our desires.

[00:11:54] Why we need our ego and what, what is the difference between the western and the [00:12:00] eastern view of the ego? So 

[00:12:02] Leanne: I, I wanna start out by saying I prefer a term functional organizing principle because I do think in the West couldn't the ego, which was originally a very abstract idea of Freud's be, and it had more to do with soul.

[00:12:18] Leanne: If there was a term he used cile, uh, but in the translation by straight Raf key, um, you know, we've co-opted this term a very abstract idea into something that's become very real. I'd prefer to sort of pull it back out and talk about a functional organizing principle as long as we don't identify over identify with it.

[00:12:45] Leanne: 'cause if you, one of the principles of yoga is non stealing. The consciousness isn't ours. The consciousness is something that flows through the lens of perception, and the problem [00:13:00] becomes, is the lens dirty, tainted, too constricted, too blown open. So that's why I prefer functional organizing principle.

[00:13:09] Leanne: And in the West and a lot of the Euro-American psychologies ego became this really real thing that I am a real separate individual. Whereas yoga would say absolutely not. As a matter of fact, that is going to lead you down. The pathway of suffering that is going to add fuel to the fire of the original point of suffering is avidia, which means hidden not wisdom, not seeing the real truth of pure consciousness.

[00:13:38] Leanne: So that's the initial misconception, if you will. Although, 'cause this is all beyond conception. And then from that initial, actually I'll say impure, seeing then this idea that this egoic eye as me is the term in yoga is real, adds fuel to the [00:14:00] fire of that blindness already of pure consciousness. So there's huge distinctions between these two systems of thought.

[00:14:08] Leanne: There's a lot of alignment in the practices. Like you mentioned earlier, I've studied a lot of Jung and yoga. There's lots of alignment when we talk about Jungian complexes, yoga samskara. So where the mind, uh, tends to be at its edge of suffering, there is absolutely a lot of agreement. But that, that field, that absolute pure consciousness, um, the seer that which is, you can't see it because it's the thing that's doing the seeing.

[00:14:40] Leanne: You'll never name it. It's beyond conception. It's the thing that's looking through the lens for all of us, for the most part. That is absolutely not in the western canon at all, that pure consciousness, our philosophies and our psychologies are wrapped around. It's a more of what. [00:15:00] I would say if Patanjali were having this conversation, he would, it's stealing, it's taking ownership of consciousness and that is a huge mistake for a culture to make.

[00:15:11] Leanne: You wanna play with it, but you don't wanna take ownership 

[00:15:14] of it. And, and so there's been a huge focus, particularly within western culture, of people really taking on this desire to connect to their spiritual self. And in some sense, there's also been a desire to kind of transcend our ego as, as a, as a belief that, that we can obtain a higher spiritual calling or being, um, outside of that.

[00:15:39] But it, it, one, this, this brought me back to a blog post I wrote about spiritual bypassing that was originally written by John Wellwood who said that the spiritual PR practices can, in it of themselves, be a way to sidestep. The emotionally unfinished business of our past and kind of [00:16:00] sweep it under the rug.

[00:16:01] I'm wondering, uh, I, I know that you mentioned a practice earlier and there there are definitely practices that we can perform that help create that mind body connection. But I'm wondering if in your practice, but you've seen people who kind of pursue this, this desire to solve themselves spiritually to a point where it almost becomes like an obsession and it's not really helping them overcome the emotional, uh, business of their past a 

[00:16:27] Leanne: thousand percent.

[00:16:28] Leanne: I, I think Wellwood did a shoot service to the Euro American Chaon by calling out spiritual bypass. It's really, really important to acknowledge everything when it comes to yoga. It's the correct application of effort, and if we get off balance in any area, it's an imbalance in the system. So we want to do our spiritual practices, but the ground, [00:17:00] the ground of our being that pure consciousness again, but also the literal ground of the earth.

[00:17:07] Leanne: One thing that yoga, Ayurveda, the whole Indian system is really, um, prone to emphasize is nature, earth, water, air, fire. So again, like a, a morning practice per se, you're always giving it up to the grounding elements, knowing we're not here without the air we breathe. We're not here without a clean water supply.

[00:17:37] Leanne: So making sure that the transcendent in the imminent, they're, they're married, so we're not getting outside of ourselves. We're actually dropping down into ourselves at the same time we're doing the spiritual practices. You see, it all becomes one in folded. Again, that's why I love the word integration, because it's, it's wholeness.

[00:17:58] Leanne: So if our [00:18:00] spiritual practices are moving us to greater states of suffering or dissociation, is, is possibly the subtext of what I'm hearing you say then? Absolutely. What, what is the part that's now falling into the invisible? What has now gone into the shadow? You know, are we escaping our past? We started at the very beginning talking about this idea of safety and safety in the body.

[00:18:27] Leanne: A lot of times people can pick up their spiritual practices to run from childhood trauma or as a way again, yes, spiritual bypass or to just sort of wash over it. Whereas in fact, we have to turn towards it. When I'm talking about that implicit memory, those feelings that we don't actually feel safe, we don't feel seen, we don't feel secure, those will haunt us until we actually learn how to soothe and, uh, create the neural pathways of self-compassion, [00:19:00] self-kindness, uh, ways to soul soothe the parts of the system that became dysregulated is another term I love, uh, through those initial 

[00:19:12] wounds.

[00:19:13] Yeah, so, so powerfully said, and I, I, I think to, to clarify too, the listener, like what we're talking about, in some ways it's those self-destructive thoughts, those self-destructive feelings that you aren't always fully conscious of, but that's often driven by that trauma of your past and may maybe you meditate an hour a day, maybe you do yoga, you, you have a therapist.

[00:19:38] In the moment of when you experience these things, your mind still tends to default to this, this negative bias, and I think as a, as a means of spiritual bypassing. I think the goal, and I'm just characterizing this now, is, is that we, we desire to change those instinctual, that unconscious part of ourselves that still clung to the past [00:20:00] and change that.

[00:20:00] Because once we do that, then we can live in a, a more peaceful universe and, uh, loving self-compassion for ourselves rather than having be having ourselves pulled into this negative experience and then using this spiritual practice to pull us out of the negative experience. Yeah. 

[00:20:18] Leanne: It means, again, we, you can't run away from the perspective of pure consciousness.

[00:20:24] Leanne: Again, it's pure means there's no other, it sits inside itself. There's no way for us to run. So if a neural pathway, if our nervous system needs to be opened, let's just say sub diaphragmatically somewhere in the gut area, then if we just sit in M and and do a mantra, is it really going to get to that subdiaphragmatic area or the intention and the attention of, wow, I feel intense anxiety in [00:21:00] my body.

[00:21:00] Leanne: I feel very self-abusive. I need to put my, my intention and my attention on to why the loving kindness isn't happening within my own system. If integration made visible is kindness and compassion that is true for the world behind my eyes as much as it's true for the world in front of my eyes. So what is has not been integrated yet that I would be that self-abusive.

[00:21:29] Leanne: And of course it can be. There's layers there, right? So did I pick it up from the family system? Did I pick it up from the culture? A lot of young women can become very self abusive 'cause they compare themselves so much media of of, of different types of beauty. And certainly back in my generation, maybe less so today, because there's more ideas of beauty out there.

[00:21:54] Leanne: They were a very small, narrow window, uh, years back. [00:22:00] And, and then people's minds can get twisted and through that comparison of what they see the culture rising towards putting on a pedestal. Um, and then it's can be even, I wanna say deeper than that. Um, you know, maybe the whole family system has within it.

[00:22:21] Leanne: And this is gonna really go on a, on the edge here. 

[00:22:24] And you're talking about family systems that like the, the psychological Yeah. Like internal 

[00:22:28] Leanne: family systems today. Um. Robert Falconer is a big voice for that system, founded by Richard Schwartz. But he talks about porous mind. So he talks about unattached burdens and the fact that I, I entities like all other energies, other galactic, cosmic en entities can also attach into people's psyches.

[00:22:51] Leanne: That's where shamanism comes in. Um, so us being aware of those possibilities is also [00:23:00] intricate. If we ignore them and pretend like they're not in the world as it is again, then it falls into shadow. Then it falls into invisibility. And whether you look at young, whether you look at yoga, whether you look at shamanism, all those systems, the thought would say, no, you have to look.

[00:23:23] Leanne: You have to assess all possibilities and you wanna continue to purge the system, deep potentiate the system. I wish there was a sort of soundbite that I could say that makes it really simple. The fact of the matter, it's not true. There is no recipe here. We're all so different. Now. There are some common themes, like we're talking about dissociation.

[00:23:49] Leanne: Is there enough linkage, or I think are the parts too differentiated? That could, that's a common fact. But how we are each, what we're each dealing with, [00:24:00] so to speak, or the shadow material that we each need to, um, gain insight into is different. So different for each of us, 

[00:24:08] right? Yeah. It, it's, it's, and, and there's been an increase in so many retreats now, and I, I think a lot of people have this expectation of, say, going to cost Costa Rica to do an ayahuasca or psychedelic retreat and thinking that it's gonna solve

[00:24:23] The thing that's been holding them up. And it doesn't always do that. And I think we need to integrate everything as view, viewing them as tools rather than a panacea that's going to solve the, the spiritual or emotional suffering that we're experiencing. Um, but I'd like to, to ask, um, that your book, it really tries to, uh, look at the ego as something that we need to integrate and, and there's a lot of talk about how we're hearing phrases like ego death or that kill your ego.

[00:24:56] And so I'd like to ask, what's the danger of [00:25:00] viewing the ego in this way and, uh, is there a more healthier way that we can view our ego as something to 

[00:25:07] Leanne: integrate? Yeah, absolutely. That's why I use that term functional organizing principle. You need one, we need one. Uh, because again, even though integration pure consciousness, this idea of wholeness.

[00:25:21] Leanne: That's what we want. We want balance and harmony in a way where we feel whole and not fractured, not dysregulated, not disharmonious, not imbalanced. But what we don't want is an enmeshment. I've heard Dan Siegel say this, I love it. It's not a wrap, it's a fruit salad. Like you have to be able to differentiate the parts.

[00:25:45] Leanne: The, that is what makes a healthy human. Once there's too much enmeshment and it's too blended. And this is exactly what Jung's point was when he was trying to understand the East, he felt that there was too [00:26:00] much sort of, uh, like intuition had, you know, gone too far, uh, for Patanjali or the Buddha. Now, he didn't have the texts, he didn't have the texts that we have today, or, you know, he was one of the first, he was on the forefront of that, of the east west comparative psychology, um, until things have come a long way since his day.

[00:26:21] Leanne: But that was his, uh, concern was that intuition was overreaching itself. And that isn't the case. Differentiation is a crucial component of yoga. Discernment, vivic ate is the term, like discernment is crucial. So when you talk about an ego death, I would say moments of transcendence where we pop open to see the limitation or to clear the lens of perception.

[00:26:52] Leanne: But ultimately you want a functional organizing principle. You always want the [00:27:00] capacity to differentiate and discern. That is a huge part of. Of being human and it keeps us safe, right? We wanna be able to, uh, differentiate and discern who are the safe people? Who are the not safe people? What, what technology, what tools will benefit us?

[00:27:23] Leanne: Versus, oh, I have a hammer. Now everything starts to look like a nail. I'm sure you've heard that example, like, right, no, it isn't that everything isn't a nail when you have a hammer. So we, we absolutely, and again, that's why I prefer functional organizing principle, the word ego. It, uh, and again, it was, it's, it's too abstract 'cause it isn't a real thing.

[00:27:46] Leanne: You'll never cut open a mind and find an ego. You'll find neuro correlates to spiritual perception. You'll find lots of neuro correlates. But that functional organizing principle, you're not, you won't cut open a brain at least [00:28:00] as of yet and find it. So I think it's healthier to think in terms of the organization, the coherence, the balance, the harmony, 

[00:28:11] and as, as a side little rabbit hole.

[00:28:12] There was an article I read recently that seemed to have a new theory that consciousness exists in the quantum realm. And that's, that's, uh, that's, that's, I don't, I don't read much more beyond that, but I just found that quite interesting. Uh, but as you say in your book that, you know, Diego, it's here as a means of survival.

[00:28:32] It's here to protect us, but the problems arise when the defenses become too rigid and unconscious. And that might be, say you, you end up having, um, an, an abusive, uh, lover, and then you find yourself in the same pattern of finding other people that are kind of follow the same negative pattern and you're unable to pull yourself out of that.

[00:28:53] Or you have some, like, say you were bitten by a dog as a kid and now you're just deathly afraid of dogs. So [00:29:00] there's, there's a means a, a practice that we have to initiate in order to make sure that our, our ego is not, uh, erroneously trying to protect us. But I, I love that you try to say that we need to understand our ego and the parts.

[00:29:14] And I'm wondering if you've, if you have a map or a framework in terms of how, I know you said also the ego doesn't exist, but is there like a framework at which we can try to meditate and view the different parts of ourselves? Is it just internal family systems or do you have another perspective? Well, let 

[00:29:31] Leanne: me just say, first of all, I love where you're going with this idea of like implicit memory or the patterns of consciousness.

[00:29:38] Leanne: So you would call those complexes, like there's something revolving around a common image and a common theme, and we tend to repeat them. And, and that's one of Freud's key I ideas the compulsion to repeat. We, until we bring awareness to the pattern, I wanna say has no [00:30:00] alternative but to repeat because it's actually looking to be seen.

[00:30:03] Leanne: It's looking for the awareness, it's looking for that level of discernment. And the real important piece here, it's conscious choice agency. Because oftentimes, like Yung would say, the complex has us, it comes in, in the proverbial ego that we're talking about. The complex comes in and overtakes the ego. It overtakes conscious choice.

[00:30:31] Leanne: All of a sudden, we don't have any agency anymore. We're filled with rage and we're screaming at the person in front of us when even 10 times ago we've committed to, I will not yell, I will not lose my balance and go into rage anymore, or I will not collapse in fear. And all of a sudden here we are repeating the same pattern.

[00:30:52] Leanne: Again. So the complexes tend to have us until it goes back to the word mastery, [00:31:00] until we're able to deep potentiate them and master them. And that's, uh, do I have a map for that? No. It's a, a slow and steady process of gaining insight into the more gross to the more subtle levels of the energetic system.

[00:31:22] Leanne: So being able to name it, even bringing anything, we can't transform anything unless it's in awareness. So even being able to name and say, okay, I have a problem with rage. Okay, I have a problem with collapsing in fear. Being able to name it step one is massive. And then it's, okay, what are the circumstances that tend to lead me there?

[00:31:42] Leanne: Now, do I, do I have agency already to not put myself in Those circumstances? Are these circumstances that I need to be in every day? A boss. A child with a parent, certain situations that we can't escape and get out of. So where does the conscious agency come in [00:32:00] to the whole process? And that's the archeology of the mind, if you will.

[00:32:05] Leanne: It's like digging deep to see, wait, where, where is my, where do my power go? And how can I get it back? And where can I choose to step outside of the pattern? Is this making sense? 

[00:32:20] Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it's always that, that we end up repeating these unconscious patterns that are negative, whether it's at a bad relationship or bad decisions, uh, or addictions.

[00:32:30] And then it's only once we finally take the decision to try to consciously step outside of that pattern and then ask ourselves, why am I doing this? Um, what patterns could be causing this? What things from my past could be causing this? Then try to really break that down and then implement new strategies to change that behavior.

[00:32:52] But the hardest part is often just for people to even realize or come to terms with that, you know, that cognitive dissonance that [00:33:00] really prevents them from even wanting, wanting to look at this particular problem. And that's why we have so much anxiety and suffering in the world today, unfortunately.

[00:33:08] Leanne: Well, yeah, it is unfortunate because we have Buddhism and yoga, which are amazing systems of thought that have to do with the healing of human suffering. We, we do not need to live this way, but we have to have coherence in our worldview. And we live in a Euro-American culture where this isolated mind, this sense of an ego has arisen in a way to really believe it is separate and that it can do all the things.

[00:33:43] Leanne: And we will continue to suffer until we relativize that ego and let it be fed from pure consciousness forward. You would call it this ego self axis, which again is a brilliant frame, but when compared to yoga, it still has a [00:34:00] little bit of a limitation, um, which we certainly can get into, but I don't wanna bring us down a rabbit hole there, that the isolated mind that has come about in American culture, Euro-American culture, uh, is completely and utterly erroneous.

[00:34:16] Leanne: And until we really understand how community-based we are, how cosmically oriented we are, until we change those frames and get out of the radical dualistic mindset of subject object, the hedonistic, I want to, um. Alleviate my pain right now. So I'm going to go get a lolly cup, I'm gonna go buy a Ferrari if I was a billionaire or whatever it would be.

[00:34:44] Leanne: We have to understand, really understand, those are only temporary ways to address the uncomfortability of, I'm gonna gonna say the safety [00:35:00] bond, um, to the world at large. 

[00:35:04] Yeah. Uh, like the unconscious patterns, right. And that, that causes us to go out and wanna buy a big house, you know, keep up with the Joneses and trying to, to, to, to, to stay young, to look good on social media.

[00:35:15] All of these unconscious, uh, pulls that in, in essence make us happy. But we keep pursuing, uh, because it's what culture and society tells us that we should be. 

[00:35:25] Leanne: Yeah. And it's a momentary happiness. And in some ways, you know, what Buddhism and, and yoga are teaching is, it's a, it's trying to run away from the existential angst.

[00:35:36] Leanne: So really dealing with deaths, uh, can be one of the best, um, first steps on the path. And that's where these things get confusing. 'cause earlier you talked about like ego death. You, you don't want to say that to somebody who doesn't have secure attachment or who came up, uh, who was abandoned by, you know, in their family [00:36:00] system or who had abuse in their family system.

[00:36:03] Leanne: Uh, ego death is not gonna be the thing that, so that's why there's like no recipe here. It has to be, it ha everybody has to address their system, where their system is at. And when there's deep, uh, uh, abandonment wounds, those wounds have to be soothed and seen. And that's like human to human or it's a smaller sense of security and safety.

[00:36:34] Leanne: When you're out at the existential area, now you're in ideas of, okay, I am gonna, I'm gonna give this up. I'm gonna surrender into cosmic mind. There has to be, that's why another word we use is window of tolerance. We have to have our, we each have a window out into the world. We want that window clean. We, we do not a wanna have, we don't wanna, we wanna be able to see right outside the window.

[00:36:59] Leanne: [00:37:00] We don't wanna be at an angle where we're getting this reflection back in some distorted view. We wanna be able to see outside that window, and we want that window to continue to get wider and wider and wider. Because what happens is, at the certain edges of that window, there are intolerable sensations, intolerable capacity to be with ourselves, be with another person.

[00:37:24] Leanne: And again, that's where that. Inquiry around the complexes, is it gonna come in? Is like, why is this intolerable for me? Why can't I sit? Why, why can't I pause? Why am I all of a sudden again, in the rage or in the collapse system? So that's where the, the, the inquiry in the turn comes. And I know I sort of threw a lot of things out there for you, so I I apologize for that.

[00:37:47] Leanne: 'cause the, the existential angst is real and it's there and it's at the root. Um, but I also wanted to make sure that I once [00:38:00] again explain that there's no recipe because not everybody is, is going to be able to, to, to contemplate on that Right. Outta the gate. For sure. 

[00:38:09] Yeah. And, and it's, it's, uh, it's hard for, I mean, um, the, well, there's so many apps, there's so many medications, there's so many therapy techniques that we have, especially in Western culture now that try to help us with, with this angst.

[00:38:25] And, uh, we've also seen religion has, you know, there's, there's less believers now than there ever have been, and it's expected that's going to continue. And what happens when you don't believe in a God as a means outside of yourself, somebody something bigger to live for. And that's what they, they teach in aa is like having a belief in a higher power.

[00:38:45] Because when you're trying to, to to quit alcohol, you know, you can quit and you can be sober for a few years. But the moment you have a big stressor, say you get into a car accident, say somebody that is really close to you dies, you tend to want to default back to that. [00:39:00] And often the, the experience that I've read about most often is a belief in the higher power, a belief in a God, and that that helps them, it gives them the sense of peace, of, of security that they can rely on, at least in terms of their ego and their consciousness.

[00:39:16] And it seems that, uh, we have this, this one view of, of how to solve this in Western psychology, but. You've, you've noted in, uh, I, my, hopefully I don't butcher this again. Uh, Putin, putan, Uhhuh ang, uh, and that this is, this is a, a ancient view of wisdom that's just thousands of years old. And I, I would like for you to explain exactly what this is and what, what we can probably learn from this in terms of applying it to a modern Yeah.

[00:39:52] Modern world. 

[00:39:53] Leanne: Um, I love that you brought up aa, um, and again, Carl Jung, so instrumental with Bill W to set up that, that [00:40:00] that system, um, and in my, one of my favorite parts of Yuan's psychology is the religious function of the psyche, uh, or the archway of Yuan's home. He had a placard, uh, called, or not called God will be present.

[00:40:17] Leanne: We ignore the gods at our apparel. And again, this is what I'm saying about . Does the complex have us or do we have it? When that rage comes and takes over the whole ego and floods the whole system, is that the gods? Like, who is that? When we don't have conscious control, we've lost, we are not steering the ship.

[00:40:40] Leanne: Something way deeper and way more profound is flooding our, our system and our, um, I wanna go down a rabbit hole, but another side note here. There's a brilliant new discipline, um, uh, neuropsycho analysis, which has to do with affective neuroscience, which shows that these emotions, [00:41:00] they're subcortical, they're below the cortex, they're coming from the body up into the mind.

[00:41:06] Leanne: So we have to be aware of what's happening with fear, with the anger and rage, with the separation distress call. These are hardwired, they're seven emotional primes. They're hardwired across all mammals. Uh, and wear a memo. So these things are subcortical. They are hardwired on the system. We need to learn how to master the system and, uh, live with them.

[00:41:30] Leanne: So a little side, a little side note there, 

[00:41:33] but tangly, it, uh, it like, it views anxiety as like a symptom of misidentification, of, and in like in, in our society, we, we treat, say the anxiety and it's not as often that we treat the underlying symptom of that 

[00:41:46] Leanne: a thousand fold, a thousand fold. So, right, we're talking about the religious function of a psyche and that yoga is intricate by nature.

[00:41:56] Leanne: Yoga is both the practice and the process and [00:42:00] like, hold this gently, but I wanna say the end result, it's the lived experience of union, which means the mind and the breath and the nervous system. Are linked. And they're linked because they understand cosmic intelligence. They understand they are not living in an isolated, separated ego itself.

[00:42:28] Leanne: So anxiety becomes a symptom of where am I out of alignment with this cosmic intelligence, the intelligence that's informing my whole system, and of course, potentially has an array of practices, which I'm happy to, uh, get into. But the yoga is the, it's the whole package because it is sitting inside what Yung would call the religious function, what aa, where AA is sending or [00:43:00] inviting its members to intend and attend to something greater than itself.

[00:43:07] Leanne: Yoga is already sitting, deeply sitting and rooted inside. I'm gonna say. That truth. So the first limb of Patanjali yoga is called the yamas, and it means the administrator, because our beingness, not what we co-opt as knowing the intelligence of our beingness, of our lived experience. Inside this cosmic wonder is administrating.

[00:43:39] Leanne: It's how we get into alignment and into balance with that bigger cosmic picture that allows, again, yoga to be experienced not in a textbook way, but in an embodied. So yoga means to yoke. I used the word harness earlier and how I said like the morning practices for my clients. [00:44:00] You wanna furnace your mind into cosmic mind.

[00:44:07] Leanne: When the small mind becomes too separated from the cosmic, it's gonna suffer. Because it's no longer at home. You see what I'm saying? When, and that goes back to this idea of stealing or greed. Let me list all potentially has five yamas. So the first limb of his eightfold path is the yamas. 

[00:44:28] Sorry, can you just clarify what is, because you've mentioned yoga and I think some people are gonna be confused because, you know, my mind defaults to yoga class at a gym to, can you differentiate what do you mean about yoga?

[00:44:40] And, uh, that is not necessarily what's, yeah, I love that. Thank 

[00:44:43] Leanne: you for clarifying that. Uh, we'll get to the yoga at the gym ish on limb three, the asana, the physical practice. But when I speak to yoga, I'm actually speaking to Patanjali Yoga Sutra, which is the cortex of the classical yoga system, [00:45:00] which is one of the six Orthodox Indian philosophies.

[00:45:04] Leanne: So Asana, the physical practice is a part of that. The breathwork is a part of, we'll get to it during, uh, one of the limbs. Um. It sits inside a deeply philosophical and psychological system. So, uh, much like we secularize Buddhism and take it out of its cosmic elements, you know, we use, we, we use Buddhism in the west and we forget the Buddhist sat under the tree and talked about all his past lives in karma.

[00:45:34] Leanne: And it's like, you can't, you can't just rob the system of all its rich heritage. But that's what we tend to do. We colonize everything. Like don't take it out of its context. The Buddha had a particular set of experiences. Take those all with you when you practice Buddhism, that kind of thing. So, and it's the same with the yoga Asana.

[00:45:55] Leanne: We take the asana, well wait a minute, the physical practice, [00:46:00] 'cause as I mentioned many times already, we're talking about the nervous system and those asanas help us clean, purify the nervous system. You don't wanna take it out of its home. Inside the deeply philosophical and psychological system that it is.

[00:46:16] Leanne: Dope. Is that, does that clarify? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Uh, 'cause there are, there are many actually paths of yoga for sure. Um, so the Classical Yoga School of Patanjali, he has eight limbs that he speaks to, uh, in the second chapter of his four chapter book, which only has 195 sutures or threads. Um, and the first limb is called the yamas.

[00:46:42] Leanne: And that is composed of five different elements, which is non-violence, truth, non stealing, walking in the awareness of the highest reality and non-green. And I've kind of threaded many of those things throughout this conversation in different ways. And, uh, [00:47:00] I wanted to. Bring it up because we talk about this idea of truth that the individual mind isn't separate from the cos of mind.

[00:47:07] Leanne: Again, YAA invites and guides its people where it does wa Yong talks about the religious function of the psyche. You, whether you call it God's source goddess, the name does not matter. It's the knowing that there is no separation, that the cosmic and the individual are integrated in a whole, and that is a truth in that system of thought.

[00:47:32] Leanne: It's not a relative truth. It's an absolute pure consciousness in that sim system of thought is absolute. What we have done in Western, in the Euro cannon is we've relativized everything that makes a huge distinction between east and west because our religions sort of co-opted this very dualistic.

[00:47:56] Leanne: There are 10 commandments for sure. Um, and [00:48:00] I'm not a religious scholar, so I can't really speak to Islam and Christianity and Judaism. I love the mystical arms of each of those systems of thought, Sufism and the Kabbala, um, mystical Christians. But religion has faltered. Perhaps we could say by and large, because it became about dogma.

[00:48:26] Leanne: It became about a middleman. It was no longer connecting the individual to the cosmic in the way that, uh, yoga lays out straight and clear in that first sutra. This is Trus. This is the Yama, this is the administrator. Pure consciousness is administrating this, and you can't steal from it. You can try. We can try.

[00:48:50] Leanne: But then now that's how we suffer by not understanding where the balance and harmony take place. That's how we fall off [00:49:00] into the realm of suffering. Non greed. Right? We've talked about the he and theistic elements of, of living in materialistic existence. So that's the first sutra. The second one are the niyamas.

[00:49:14] Leanne: So it's more like the end is the beginning in, in that first sutra potentially saying this is the integrated hole. It sits. That's why it's pure consciousness again, it's sits inside itself. It's not stealing from itself. It's, it's its own truth. It's not violent. It's actually love is the closest way for us to, uh, and I don't mean a infatuated kind of love, I mean in an embodied sense of the heart is open, the mind is connected to the heart, and we feel loving.

[00:49:46] Leanne: Kindness throughout compassion throughout our system on a daily basis. That's why integration made visible is kindness and compassion. 'cause we fear it. So that's why non-violence is part of the yamas. So it's like the [00:50:00] end is the beginning and really when you look at his limbs and then his second limb is the niyamas.

[00:50:05] But I'm, I'm, I'm sorry to interrupt. I I, I wanna add so much on top of this before we move on to, to the next is, uh, is, is, uh, Ali, uh, I'm saying it wrong again. Uh, so, so it describes like different states of consciousness and I think it's hard for everybody to, to fully comprehend unless they've experienced like a week long meditation retreat.

[00:50:28] But what you're describing this connection to consciousness, it reminds me of, of the, of the pans panspermia, uh, the, uh, theory, which is one in which we are, we are the universe. You know, we, we are a. Uh, our consciousness is the universe and it, it, it's, it's kind of a, it kind of screws with you if you, if you try to think with it for too long.

[00:50:49] But this is what this version of yoga, uh, what it really tries to describe is the state of consciousness in which we, beyond our ego, we, we, [00:51:00] where we exist in, in a, a non-dual awareness, and there's been neuroscience on this that shows that advanced meditators, they're able to have completely different wave patterns depending on what state of consciousness that they're in.

[00:51:14] So this is not this kind of weird woo woo thing that we're talking about, this connection with the consciousness. Uh, it is just really, really hard to get there. And a and a quick shortcut that a lot of us have experienced is like psychedelics and other tools of, of that nature. But that's kind of what we're talking about.

[00:51:31] This, this, this connection from, I. Everything around the, you know, I and who I am, it's a connection with everything around us. 

[00:51:41] Leanne: Well, I'm a big fan of psychedelics in, in particular psilocybin. I think it's a very hard opening medicine. Um, because one of the things maybe we wanna differentiate, yes, it's states, but it's also the differentiation between consciousness and the contents [00:52:00] of consciousness.

[00:52:01] Leanne: So earlier I said the seer and the seeing, the thing that's looking and the thing it sees and the subtlest levels of what it sees or feels. 'cause seeing you could sub that out to say perceiving. It's perceiving subtle signals in the body. It's perceiving emotions, it's perceiving thought. It's perceiving.

[00:52:26] Leanne: If we do tend to do that, gross objects on the forefront of our eyes. So that differentiation is ultimately what self-realization is. Oh, the self is the thing Doing the seeing. You will never objectify it. It is the thing, it, it's coming out as cosmos, as galaxy, and we are that, but it certainly has primacy.

[00:52:53] Leanne: It's the, um, like as Deepak Chopra often teaches, it's the ontological prince [00:53:00] of pri. It's the, it's the on primary. It's, it's the reality of being, and that's again what Patanjali is teaching. So, um, hard to get to yes and no, like yes. Yes. Because we we're contracted. Right, right. If the moment we let go, and one of the key parts potentially second sutra is yoga should have written neha, which means the restraint of the mind.

[00:53:31] Leanne: When we're able to sit in silence is, 'cause that's what you're talking about, right? With psychedelics, the default load network goes offline and so there's an opening and so, so it's, it's hard one, and at the same time we, why can't we just be still? Because when we're still, there's a palpable energy that's just here.

[00:53:55] Leanne: Stillness in safety. This goes way back to the beginning of our conversation. [00:54:00] Our interlinked, like the nervous system has a hard time being still when it doesn't feel safe or if it's trying to run into an identity or to solve a problem running towards something. When you pull, when we pull back all our projections into stillness, then it's just, I dunno if you've ever seen like Shiva with this.

[00:54:22] Leanne: Yeah. It's just like, it's just the beating heart of the universe. So. It's interesting 'cause it's a paradox, right? It's hard because, you know, we've lived inside this culture that's, uh, invited us into all these contracted ideas and ideals and at the same time it's like, it's right here because it's the, it's everything that we are.

[00:54:47] Leanne: You don't, we don't have to, it's, it's not even as much looking for it as much as it's, um, it's clearing the lens of perception. It's like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. It's [00:55:00] not, we don't have to go after it. 'cause it's the very thing that we are, the question becomes why are we missing it?

[00:55:06] Right. And, and in your book you talk about understanding consciousness differently and it doesn't just change like what we think. It changes how we live. So I'm curious in your work with clients, I. What were some surprising changes that you've seen in people who, who really fully understand this, like in their relationships work or daily lives?

[00:55:28] Leanne: Uh, alignment with purpose is a big one. Uh, alignment with their life story. So, uh, their narrative, if you will, of who they are, why maybe they chose the parents they chose, or the bodily system that they chose. And, um, moving towards states of empowerment. So I would say those would be three key changes that I see most often [00:56:00] is somebody really able to then get into alignment and live their purpose.

[00:56:05] Leanne: Uh, somebody able to really understand their karmic path, um, and somebody able to really accept like, why the parents, why the life? And move forward from that place of acceptance in a stabilized, balanced way. Those would be key changes that I see in people. Uh, 'cause again, like the big awakening experiences, um, I often facilitate, uh, PS psilocybin experiences for people.

[00:56:41] Leanne: Those are great, but you have to be able to integrate them. And that has to do with continuing to clear the patterns of, we use a yogic term here, karma. The, the, the patterns that are in the mind, whether they've come to the family system, they've come to pass lives, they come to the culture. Being able to clear those either the way, [00:57:00] so the lens of perception, that functional organizing principle, uh, the window of tolerance is such stabilized that one is able to walk forward in one's own.

[00:57:11] Leanne: Um, Dharma one's truth, like, ah, all right, I have purpose. Like, I feel it. I feel the reason why I come here. I've come here, I love to wake up in the morning and move forward to optimize my system or, um, you know, work towards, again now those goals at that point, they're very balanced and in harmony with wholeness.

[00:57:36] Yeah. And, and there, there, there's a book that I, I loved in the past year by Oliver Berkman who wrote a book called 4,000 Weeks. And he really details, like back in, you know, a few hundred years ago, we didn't have a concept of time or productivity, but we didn't question our existence. We, we woke up, we, we did the farm, we, we did what we had to do.

[00:57:57] And there really wasn't more of any thought [00:58:00] beyond that because we had religion as kind of like the buffer between this, like who we are and trying to understand, uh, what we are. And now in our modern life, a lot of those, those things have been resolved. You know, of course, Maslow's uh, hierarchy is that more of us are in the top of that pyramid today than ever before.

[00:58:19] And with solutions like psychedelics, like there's so many people who, who've obviously done them, but just because you you do a psychedelic doesn't mean that you're gonna, it's gonna change you. And it's really, as you say, it's about the integration. It's about having like, like the, like the right guide with you, intention setting and then trying to integrate that.

[00:58:38] It's really that integration practice that really makes like the most difference. So with our modern life, we're questioning our consciousness, our existence more than ever. So, I mean, apart from psychedelics, obviously you shouldn't, like, nobody should just dive into to, to various drugs as a means to help solve this disconnection with, with their existence or their identity.

[00:58:59] So [00:59:00] what would you say is like, like the start shear practice that people should consider, like the hierarchy of trying to, to really dig into being connected with their, their inner consciousness and their purpose? The very 

[00:59:12] Leanne: start is safe, unsafe. Do I feel safe in my body with the people around me, with the city I live in, with the culture I live in?

[00:59:25] Leanne: Foundational, like getting the, the, the different, the knowing of the difference between safe, unsafe, um, and, and again, like for the people who come to see me, that, that, that often has to be done. That's level one. Am I safe? Because what it's like, you don't wanna build a house without a solid foundation, and there's no way to master the mind without having it feel safe at its core and it's safe.

[00:59:59] Leanne: Uh, that [01:00:00] relationship to the higher power that we're talking about, pure consciousness, that yoking like that can happen even when we come. . From families where there we weren't necessarily safe inside the family system like that. The nature is a beautiful work around, like Mother Nature is amazing, you know, her ancient trees that we can put our back against the grass that we can go lay on, the flowers, that we can smell, the nurturing food that we can eat.

[01:00:29] Leanne: Our food choices show us so much about whether we care for our system or not care for our systems, whether we're looking for harmony imbalance or we're looking to get jacked up on caffeine or white sugar or whatever. Uh, so the safe, unsafe, for sure would be the very beginning. And then from there it's, it's the breath work to continue to anchor the system into that safety and to get the nervous system to continue to drop [01:01:00] its roots, if you will, inside that foundation of safety.

[01:01:06] Leanne: Um, and from there, . What patterns are there that need to be looked at and deep potentiated, you know, again, is there something around anger or rage or shutting down? Um, and using inquiry, I love journal prompts. I love to give my clients homework. Uh, so they can, you know, if they, whenever, if they come weekly or they come biweekly so they can go away, you know, if we, I'm only seeing them two hours a month or four hours a month, there's a lot of hours in between that.

[01:01:40] Leanne: Uh, so they can do the homework of self-reflection, uh, in journal prompts or a great way to do that. Um, watching podcasts also brings a lot of insight, I think, to people. Um, and yeah, the breathwork practice, I know we were talking about, uh, potentially's, eightfold path, those [01:02:00] asanas a physical practice, Qigong, Tai Chi, yoga, uh, these are ancient practices that

[01:02:08] Leanne: Link the breath and the mind and the body. Uh, and they're worth their weight in gold. They've survived thousands of years. We're importing them on mass because they work. Um, so that also is another layer for sure. Um, and I would say those are, are probably the three key components of it, for sure. The safety.

[01:02:32] Leanne: Um, because once we feel safe and once we start to take a comfortable seat in our body, then we get to see, oh, if I make that choice and I decide to lie or have an inflated sense of self, now I'm not feeling so safe anymore. I'm starting to feel insecure. We have to have a core, I have to have a a, a center from which we can compare what choices we make that take us out of balance, out of alignment into dysregulation versus [01:03:00] alignment, balance and regulation.

[01:03:02] Leanne: So that core of safety, security. No matter what I came from, I'm here now and, uh, I'm connected to this cosmic mind, which has deep intelligence. And when I feel safe in the body, I can keep refining my ability to see what my choices are and how they affect the knock on effect of the next 10 minutes, the next hour, the next day.

[01:03:33] Leanne: And I can build something that's really stable, that feels amazing. And, um, so the other thing I would say to that then is it's the heart. It it all, you know, the heart. Um, we, we said right in the yamas, Patanjali had non-violence as one of his yamas, part of the, the, the, the first limb. This idea of the heart mind connection again, none of us can run away [01:04:00] from that.

[01:04:01] Leanne: We can't. It's hardwired on the system. So we're either living with that truth. And I love the research that comes outta HeartMath, uh, up in Northern California. Um, it is such rich research. It is in, in alignment completely with what yoga, one of my favorite yoga sutures of Pat Potentiates. In the third part of the third chapter, he says, by concentration, meditation and absorption into the heart, you come to know the mind.

[01:04:33] Leanne: So without that mind heart connection, we're just, we're spinning. We're spinning. 

[01:04:41] And, and, and that's caused so many of us to, to become external and trying to seek external solutions to our problems. And inevitably that's also led to us having some, some disturbing people in this realm of, [01:05:00] of spiritual awareness.

[01:05:02] So I, I want to talk a moment as like a last subject about like the dark side of, of spirituality in a way, because you have people like, like Yogi Bikram, where there's a great Netflix documentary where he is building this massive yoga empire while allegedly sexually assaulting students or, uh, a guru, uh, UHU, if I'm saying her.

[01:05:25] Yeah. 

[01:05:26] Leanne: Yogi Bajan, yoga Baja and, and, and guru. Jagged, yeah. Mm-hmm . Yes. 

[01:05:31] Yeah. And, and there's a HPO documentary about her, and it shows like this kind of misguided guru and this master manipulator and, uh, you know, that, that wellness industry as a whole, uh, we, we have people like, like Jay Shetty, who, who not, not to, uh, say too many bad things about him, but I mean, he went from being a monk for three years to now having this massive, so social media empire worth millions.

[01:05:54] I. In some ways that, that kind of seems counterintuitive of like, like the whole image that [01:06:00] you're trying to project. And, you know, it's, it's taking ancient wisdom when it's combined with like, modern marketing. And so I, I find it, uh, often hard to, to look at like a, how do you differentiate between like a, a legitimate spiritual leader or insights, uh, like, and how do you like a, allow these, these people, I mean, what, what kind of spiritual practices, what kind of people, um, how do we navigate this when it seems that there are so many people in this space of spirituality who have their own narrative and, um, in some ways they're, they're exploiting others.

[01:06:36] Leanne: Again, I love train of thought that you're going down circles back to what we talked about before with discernment. We, we should never give our power away to another person. And of course, again, when we're vulnerable. Where we are in pain and we want to heal, [01:07:00] we can make choices that aren't in service to, uh, integration or empowerment.

[01:07:08] Leanne: Um, how to tell a cult from a, not a cult, uh, what is the discernment process there? It really is a really rich, great question, uh, because it is true that so many, uh, teachers, right, have come to the west and, and faltered. Um, I don't know, uh, about Jay Shetty. So, um, and if one is called to be a teacher, one has to live in that dharma, right?

[01:07:39] Leanne: So somebody who has the call to teach. These wisdom traditions, they have to show up and do it. If they say no to it, then their system's gonna be offline, you know, out of alignment. So it's how to do it with the balance and the harmony that we've talked about. Remember I said the, the five yamas, the first limb of pa potentially [01:08:00] yoga psychology is, uh, non greed is in there non stealing?

[01:08:06] Leanne: Um, no. So perhaps that's what we could say here. Know the classical yoga psychology and if, and, and, and, and refer back to it. And refer back to it and refer back to it. And ultimately, um, never, never, ever, ever give your power away to another person if the guru like, or the teacher doesn't tell you that the guru is within you.

[01:08:38] Leanne: Then that teacher right there should be like, don't consider them your teacher, walk away. Um, this is a finely tuned intelligence and when we understand that fine tuned nature of it, we can keep calling [01:09:00] ourselves into harmony and into balance. But we have to, we do have to know some basic principles of the teachings, undoubtedly.

[01:09:09] Leanne: Um, they're in the books. It's great to be able to go to a yoga class and have a teacher that's knowledgeable, undoubtedly. Um, but yeah, you have to do your research a hundred percent do your research and don't ever give your power away for sure. I, I, I, I can't, you know, say when you would be able to spot the cult-like activity, but certainly if any abusive.

[01:09:36] Leanne: Behavior is going on. It just reminds me so many documentaries out there, right? Like NM and Keith Raniere and like, yeah, there's, there's sexual abuse and power over techniques. And if your system, and, and, and this is also what we're talking about, is being able to understand the GPS of our own system. And when we come from abuse, [01:10:00] a lot of times we're going to Fawn, we're going to adapt and fold into, we're just gonna repeat the pattern of abuse ultimately because it's the pattern that our system knows though, um, you know, how to begin to reorient the, the GPS system, uh, a good therapist, you know, one-on-one work because again, like it's really hard to have one-liners and have a recipe because everybody's system is.

[01:10:31] Leanne: Really so different. And I would venture to guess back in the day, um, Yogava was probably taught more one-on-one than in these huge, big spiritual communities. There was probably a lot more, uh, one-on-one work done between the teacher and the student. Um, so I hope I've given at least a few little, little ideas.

[01:10:55] Yeah, I I I absolutely love that. And, and, uh, I think what, [01:11:00] what's shocking as, uh, viewing like spirituality is if, is if, if we've never really been spiritual and then we try to become more spiritual, we see those who, who present themselves as, as spiritually enlightened as, as pure as we can trust this person because everything they say, it, it almost comes from a place of love and connection and connection with the universe.

[01:11:25] But at the end of the day, they're still a human being. And when we put our faith and trust in another person, it means that we don't have faith in ourselves. And, and ultimately, uh, I mean I've been in, in bad relationships, uh, many of them being business partners. I'm actually writing a book right now on how to avoid bad business relationships.

[01:11:45] But one of them was with somebody who is, is, is kind of a master manipulator called like a dark empath where they're able to empathize with you, but they still have a, a malicious intent. Right? And I think the, the ultimate thing [01:12:00] that I learned through that experience is that we are our own guru. And the, the moment we can trust ourselves, trust our gut, not default to, well, what would she do?

[01:12:11] What would, what would my partner do? What would that person do that I respect? Uh, that's, that's the moment of transition in which we're able to obtain that level of self-confidence. That, that level of self-esteem that we've been searching for our whole lives. And what's ironic is that it exists right within us, and it's been there this whole time.

[01:12:32] Leanne: Yes. And I wanna say, I bet it had to do with safety, that you, you trust it because you feel safe with it. You've understood its language. Yeah. You know how it's communicating to you and you're able to walk forward with that inner knowing. But that, and that's why I stick with safety first. Like, we have to feel safe to let all that wisdom [01:13:00] and intelligence fall into place.

[01:13:02] Leanne: Because from there it's like, yeah, I'm safe in my body and I'm safe with the cosmos. Uh, I'm going to listen to you fellow human, but I understand how complex the human experience can be and how twisted up you could be behind that smiling face that I see. So I'm gonna stick with the cosmic intelligence and how I know it informs me, I will be open and receptive and my heart will stay open.

[01:13:26] Leanne: But I will also keep my field of discernment alive so that when you, uh, come to me, I am discerning and I'm using all of my senses, my intuition, my thoughts, my emotions, my sensations to are you safe or not safe? 

[01:13:43] Yeah. And, and so as we wrap up, I'd, I'd love to get really practical for a moment, and because we've explored so much today for, from young psychology to, to, to ancient, uh, yoga wisdom, I'm, I'm wondering if for, for say like the college student that's, that's listening right now, maybe [01:14:00] feeling overwhelmed with social media or, or, or, uh, pressured into needing to have a great career.

[01:14:06] Um, what, what practical advice or, or insight, um, could help them anchor in this crazy world that we're living in today? Yeah. Um, 

[01:14:15] Leanne: rest. Again, like we make up the culture, we can't blame anybody, like there's no victim here. Each of us makes a vote with every dollar we spend and with every job we take into what we want the next day, month, year, 10 years to look like.

[01:14:38] Leanne: So focusing on one's breath, feeling safe in the body, feeling connected to the cosmos is an excellent start because the culture is a whole nother layer. And we all, I want us to say, especially now with the rise of, I don't like the term ai. [01:15:00] I much prefer co intelligence. Like we want this tech to be our friend.

[01:15:06] Leanne: We want it to optimize and help us move into the next level of our own evolution, but we created it. So again, it's not coming from source, it's human created. So that sink back into breath, into body, into nature, and feeling safe inside the cosmos, I think is a great start for anyone. And then realize, and what's the culture doing?

[01:15:36] Leanne: And now how do I wanna participate? Do I want to move the culture out of suffering and more towards a center, or do I wanna be in the spinning top nature of the culture, just even right there as somebody going to school or just coming outta school. It's making those really focused decisions on [01:16:00] 

[01:16:00] participation.

[01:16:01] And is there any specific type of breath work that you'd recommend? Like, like whether it's box breathing, I know that's recommended for anxiety, uh, or a meditation practice. What, what's, what's something that, that you would recommend or a set of practices? So 

[01:16:13] Leanne: a birth work that I . Love, and, uh, maybe we could do it re real, real quick.

[01:16:19] Leanne: Um, first of all, I love two handholds, one at the chest and one at the abdomen. Um, because that acupressure point of just not too hard, but not too soft, can really allow the system to settle in and of itself. And then of course, some people will close their eyes, and if that doesn't feel right, then leaving the eyes gently open is fine too.

[01:16:47] Leanne: And from here, after breathing naturally and finding the handhold again, not too hard, not too soft, taking six counts on the inhale, really filling sub [01:17:00] diaphragmatically into the belly, holding for two, and then extending the exhale to eight, and then repeating that. So six on the inhale. Pausing for two really long extension to at least eight on the exhale.

[01:17:20] Leanne: Now, pause before the inhale. Wonderful. Really helps the nervous system relax. And that's ultimately, as I've said many times, the mind is linked to the breath is linked to the nervous system. When our nervous system is relaxed and safe, we're gonna make a set of decisions and see life one way versus if we're in a fight, flight or freeze kind of response.

[01:17:49] Leanne: And we wanna be mobilized, right? We wanna optimize and mobilize, but we wanna know the safety, the ground base first. 

[01:17:59] [01:18:00] Well, on that note, Dr. Whitney, uh, thank you for breaking down these really complex topics for everyone's who's, who's listening. I. I would advise you to or recommend that you check out Dr.

[01:18:11] Whitney's book, consciousness in Young and Putin Jolly, which I, I'll never, I'll never get, I have to keep on practicing it. It dives deep into everything that we've talked about today, and it's, it's also a little bit academic. And so if there's other things that we've talked about in this episode, we'll be sure to put it in the show notes.

[01:18:31] Uh, Dr. Whitney also has some great resources on her website, uh, which, and also her Instagram, which is Dr. Leanne Whitney. That's L-E-A-N-N-E, uh, where she shares practical tips and insights regularly. Uh, this is Ben Mind Hack. Uh, I'm Ben, your host, Cody McLean. If you have value from this episode, please do me a favor and share it with someone who might need to hear it.

[01:18:55] Until next time, keep hacking your mind, but maybe with a little less [01:19:00] ego.

[01:19:05] CODY: Hey guys, this is Cody again. I hope you enjoyed that episode of Mind Hack, and if you're interested in getting more mind hack worthy stuff straight to your inbox, then you might consider signing up for my weekly newsletter. It often contains links to new episodes, blog posts, and other interesting finds I found on the in interweb in the past week.

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[01:19:51] CODY: And as always, if you have any feedback, good or bad, I want to hear it. Send me a tweet, email or what have you on either of my websites, as my goal with this [01:20:00] show is to give you the maximum value in the shortest amount of time. That's all for now, guys. Thanks again for listening, and I'll catch you guys again soon.