Kelly: [00:00:00] I know somebody helped solve a murder because they heard this weird word in their dream, a word that didn't exist. They looked up the word online, just like, and I can't remember what the word was, but that led down the rabbit hole of her finding this friend from high school. She knew where she had been and she had, she, there was some in information that she realized she had that helped the detective solve the case of this missing person.

So, I mean, it, it, it wasn't what she thought, but it's like, do something to honor the strangeness or the wisdom of the Dream

Cody: Mind Hack is a podcast about the psychology behind performance, behavior change, and self-op optimization. Each episode explorers how to think clearly, work smarter and live intentionally through insightful conversations with leading entrepreneurs, scientists, and experts and human behavior.[00:01:00] 

Hello and welcome to the Mind Hack Podcast, the show where we explore the science of peak performance, mindset, and personal growth. I'm your host Cody McLain, and today I'm joined by Dr. Kelly Sullivan Walden, a bestselling author, certified clinical hypnotherapist, and renowned dream expert, widely known as Doctor Dream.

Her upcoming book, dream Manifesting, harnessing the Power of Your Dreams to Create the Life you Desire, shares her powerful approach to tapping into the hidden wisdom of our dreams. Kelly has spent over two decades guiding everyone from Fortune 500 executives to Hollywood celebrities, helping them transform subconscious insights into real world results.

In this episode, we'll dive deep into how you can practically use the often overlooked potential of your dreams to unlock clarity, creativity, and tangible progress towards your personal goals. So without further ado, please welcome Dr. Kelly Sullivan Walden. [00:02:00] Welcome to the show. 

Kelly: Thank you, Cody. Thank you so much for having me.

I love the title Mind hack. It's, and I'm excited to be with you and explore and see where we go.

Cody: Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. And so, in your new book, dream Investing, you describe how dreams can help create our ideal life. Can you kind of explain what dream manifesting means and, and how we can actually apply dreams and, uh, our life?

Sure. 

Kelly: So in a nutshell, dream manifesting is dreams plus manifesting. Um, I consider myself a practical mystic and definitely in the mystical side of life. Some would say the woowoo, but I'm very nitty gritty at at the same time. So I'm always looking at the modalities that take us beyond the body. So that we can come back into the body and have a more joyous, fulfilling experience.

So dreams do that. Dreams [00:03:00] take us way beyond. They give us a perspective that is. You know, sometimes at the past lives, sometimes ancestral, sometimes they just give us a point of view that we never logically would've considered before. And when we look at our dreams and at least just give them a nod, I always just say, at least give them a few minutes in the morning.

That's all I ask. 'cause just a few minutes. They'll, they tend to alter the way we think a little bit sometimes a lot. And that tends to make us more intuitive. There's actually hard data. Harvard put out a study years ago that said, when people pay attention to, to their dreams, they become better navigators, their lives as they have more acuity with regards to making decisions and more, but they're, they tend to even feel more confident in their decisions because it's as if they have a little bit of a sense of what's around the corner.

There's a sense of being more connected to the universe, and we all have decisions to make every [00:04:00] day. We all have, we're all up to something, and our dreams are this very unutilized, underutilized resource that we all have that can give us guidance toward being better livers of our life, better navigators of our lives.

But also if we set ourselves up in the moments before sleep, we can also really notice how our dreams are helping give us clues and guidance about helping us crack the code of getting the things that we want in life better relationships, improved health, wealth. They're just, they're an un unbelievable guide that we mostly over overlook.

So that's kind of the nutshell. 

Cody: Yeah. And I, I think it's easy to dismiss this concept of dreams and how it might actually help you in life, but yet when it [00:05:00] comes to dreams, there's still so much that we can't explain scientifically. Like we, we still don't fully understand why we have dreams. All of it is just a theory.

And so there, there's so many ways that we've, we've had instances, like I know Thomas Edison had a dream of a light bulb, and that was the, the reason why perhaps we have light bulbs and that we're doing this right now, we'd be in the dark otherwise. Yeah. And, and so there's, there's so much potential that dreams can have from helping us to process our past.

To helping us to kind of be that connection between our conscious and our subconscious and helping us to realize what it is that we truly want in life. Because there is such a huge issue with the, like, the meaning and, and the purpose crisis. Um, so, Ooh, can you kind of, yeah. I'd love to go into this concept that you've, you've kind of come up with this dream of investing.

Can you, can you guide us through exactly what you mean by that [00:06:00] and how we can actually pay attention to our dreams in a way that we can derive some tangible benefit? 

Kelly: Yeah. Well, here's, um, here's a few things just to make it super relatable. I, I play with the word manifesting and I say there's manifesters, there's woman festers and there's dream festers.

So I'm playing with the gender, kind of the traditional gender roles and, and we can bend them anyway, like, because there's a masculine energy in every woman, feminine energy in every man, a little bit of each in all of us. So I would, I, I dare say that typical manifesters are, they're depicted by being somebody who doesn't take no for an answer, who will charge up that hill and make what they want happen if, and they won't take no for an answer, and they don't stop until they get it.

And often that produces results. But on the shadow side of that, there's a lot of adrenal burnout. There's a lot of cortisol, there's a lot of pushing [00:07:00] upstream, kind of like Sisyphus that's pushing the boulder uphill. Just when you get at a pill, it rolls back down and then you have to start all over again.

So there's, there's a blessing in the manifesting, but it's also, there's also it's shadow. And then woman manifesting. I say this and, and this is for men and women. Some people just really good at asking for help and saying, I can't do it. I'm lost. Can you help me? And that kind of perspective, that's sort of helpless.

Allows other people to be strong and big and allows other people to say, I'll save you, I'll, I'll, you know, it's like you get the hero complex when you help somebody that's, that's really lost. So woman manifesters often produce a lot of results in their lives as well by playing powerless, by playing the victim card.

And that works to a certain degree, but the shadow is that you kind of have to keep playing the victim in order to get people to keep helping. But I say, if you take the best of manifesting, which is that bit of like, I'm gonna [00:08:00] do everything I can on my own. I'll take it as far as I can. And then the best of woman manifesting, which is I'm not here by myself.

We are all in this together. Let's, let's have a community effort. Let me make it kind of like Tom Sawyer painting the fence. Let's get everybody involved in painting that fence. But then. Calling on the power of our subconscious mind, which according to the American Hypnosis Association, is 88% of our mind's power versus our traditional logical pushing brain, which is 12% at best.

So when we access the wisdom of our dreams, our spirit, our intuition, our more subtle senses, then we become dream of festers, and that's when we become magnetic to things coming to us, without us having to beg, plead, and without having to force it. So we, it's kind of like blending the best of all of those things.

So that's another way of looking at dream manifesting. And then I have [00:09:00] a simple way of kind of breaking down when how do you, how do you do it if that's where you wanna go next? 

Cody: Well, when you, when you say dream manifesting, I have to admit, it reminds me of that documentary that was very controversial and somewhat debunked.

What was that? I think, I mean, it depends on your perspective called The Secret. I'm sure you've heard of it. Yes, of course. Where, yes. Right, where it's the, this, this concept of being able to just think what you want and then the universe will give it to you. Now, personally, like my experience was that it taught me this concept of being able to dream into the future and really try to imagine what is the life I want?

Yes. What kind of habits and what kind of person do I wanna see myself? And I would find in these odd increments, like six months later, I would find that I, I had achieved this very thing that I had desired just like six months ago. And, and now, personally, I don't know that I, I, I don't necessarily subscribe to the belief that the universe is just going to fulfill our, our dreams.

But I do believe, and based on [00:10:00] even many, many previous, uh, interviews I've done with psychologists is that if we imagine the future that we want for ourselves. Then we're more likely to be, to be able to have that. And so I, I suppose what you're saying in some ways, correct me if I'm wrong, is that we, we have these dreams and if we, if we actually give them attention, if we pay attention to them and we try to apply them and think, how does this apply?

Is this just a random thing that is just, doesn't mean anything? Or is this actually trying to tell me something? Uh, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. Oh, I have so many 

Kelly: thoughts. That was great, Cody. And Yes, and I, and I'm flattered that you would, that, that you would think of the, the secret with regards to my book and also a little indignant at the same time.

'cause I, I watched The Secret. I was inspired by it and also made skeptical, but also, I mean, I would say more inspired than, than the other way around. Of course, bringing things into our lives. One thing I I say [00:11:00] is. We have to, there has to be some form of surrender. We're not making it all happen. And I think some people, I don't know that anybody actually said in the movie The Secret, this is people's perspective of the law of attraction.

But we're not in control. But we have a little bit of control. We have my, my, my friend Ti Allen, who's my publicist always says, control your controllables. And that may just be this much, it may be able to fit on the head of a pin, but that's yours to do. You could do something with that that could keep you busy all day long.

And then the rest of it you have to be in. I will be done. Some things bigger going on and you don't want to control the universe. You don't wanna be CEO of the whole universe. You just wanna do your part and do your part well. So there's, oh, there's so much. Um, so according, like one of the things that I think, I believe.

[00:12:00] Very much so, and I think it's true that we see in the secret is that it is done unto us as we believe. So if we, let's go all the way back to Einstein who said the most important question we can ask ourselves is, is this universe friendly? And according to Einstein, the universe is friendly. The reason why it's the most important question to ask is because the way we respond to that question, our belief about the universe, is it friendly or not friendly, is going to absolutely affect every single aspect of our lives.

It's gonna affect our health, our wealth, our relationships, our ability to overcome difficulties. It's kind of this overall perspective that, that life is either happening for us or it's where it's happening to us. So. There is something about getting into a positive mindset, but I also think it's very important.

I'm a big proponent of shadow work. I don't think we can. It's kind of like Meghan Trainor [00:13:00] song from a long time ago. It's, it's all about the bass, I think it's about the bass and the tre. Um, so this conversation is kind of a tre conversation. It's about the higher notes. It's about aspirational ideas of what do we want with our life, and how can our dreams help us achieve those things?

So that's kind of, I'd say the majority of what we're gonna be talking about today. But we can't forget about the base. We can't forget about the parts of ourselves that are heavier, that are slower moving, that are resistant, that are cynical, that are still hurt. That, that once upon a time as a kid believed that anything could happen.

And then we got smacked and slammed and broken and hurt and we're like, I will never do that again. So that part is still in there. That and. I believe it's all like, we have to have all parts of ourselves along for the ride. We can't splinter ourselves off and just have the aspirational part run 10,000 miles [00:14:00] ahead and leave everyone else behind.

I think it has to be like a family vacation where everyone, everyone's in the station wagon, everyone's in the van, everyone's together. Even if they're fighting, they, they have to figure it out together. So it's, so I, I would say that the secret tended to focus mostly on the treble and there was very little, if, if none attention, no attention paid to the base.

I in, in dream manifesting. I talk a lot, uh, not, not a lot, but I'd say maybe there's about at least a fifth of the book is about using dreams to help alchemize the painful aspects of our lives. The, the nightmares. In other words, it's kind of like, um. When I was, I, I've done some work in schools. I had this program called The Dream Project that was helping kids using their dreaming mind in the inner city.

That was, that happened to be where I was working to imagine [00:15:00] and dream solutions for the world, world issues. And I was in the hood where, where kids like would slash your tires or slash you, they didn't like you. And my strategy was to get the kids that were the most resistant, the ones in the back of the room.

Like, I don't believe any of this bullshit. I'm, I'm not gonna play. And I'd be like, you guys come up to the front. You're the ones that get to control the time travel machine. And they were. I get to be a part of it. Nobody ever wants me to be a part. I'm always in the back making, making jokes about it all anyway, bringing in the parts that are the most negative or the most simple or the most hurt, letting them have an important role.

All of a sudden it's like hot knife through butter. We can now, we can boogie. So it's kind of like that with our lives. If we, when we do have a nightmare, when we do have a difficult thing or a recurring issue in our lives, we have to address it and we have to love it. We have to love it so much [00:16:00] that we, that it melts, it melts and that it becomes part of the whole.

And then we can start getting aspirational. Then we can really start thinking well now, now that we don't have to deal with that particular pain anymore. And I think you probably know something about this from your book that we were talking about before the show about kind of the pain. Then all of a sudden you're like, well, what do I wanna create?

Where do I wanna go? So we think about what we, what we would like our lives to be, and then we start having some freedom to, to follow our bliss, follow our passion, follow what feels good, not based on what's trending on Instagram or TikTok, but based on what really, really resonates with our soul. And then we think about that before we go to sleep.

Say, dreams, help me with this. Help me release and let go of any part of me that is still kind of one foot on the brake, one foot on the gas, like that's [00:17:00] divided. Help me work that out. And then show me some, some things that I wouldn't have thought of to help me make this like close the gap on where I'm at and where I wanna be.

And then we pay attention to those dreams and act on them, take some form of action on them anyway, and then we notice things changing. So that's kind of. That's a lot of ways of answering your last question. 

Cody: No, but I, I, I love that. And, uh, I think you, in, you incorporate a very important part is that we shouldn't just be focused on our aspirations in the future.

We also have to consider like our, our inner child and our past. Yes. And also to make sure that our future ambitions aren't just a means of trying to cope with our past as a means of trying to cover it up. Because it's so often now that we attempt to, to numb ourselves or distract ourselves from the pain that is really a root cause of most of our suffering.

And so what you're saying is that dreaming can be used as a tool for [00:18:00] dreaming of our ideal life and where we want to be, but it can also be used as a way of processing either our day or our, our. Past, past lives or past trauma. And it's, it's ev everybody's had the experience of you. You watch like a, like a horror film before bed and then you end up having a nightmare.

And I think you bring in an important aspect, which is intentionality. Intentionality of what do I want to dream? And perhaps you don't always remember your dream, but perhaps you're setting yourself up for the kind of life that you want simply by having an intentionality before you decide to go to bed that night.

Kelly: Yeah, 

Cody: exactly. 

Kelly: And if you think about it, I mean there's, you know, I'm a hard worker. I've written a lot of books, I do a lot of stuff. But I'm also, I think at my core, a little lazy. And if there's the hard way or the easy way, I'll pick the easy way. Every time there's the long line or the short line, you can guess which line I'll be in.

I [00:19:00] just, I'd prefer things to be graceful and I. I have found that that dreams just help us to things to be a little easier. Um, you know, there's the hard way to have anything come to us, but if we, our dreams can give us some insights that we would not have thought about, it's, it's incredible what we can do.

I mean, like you brought up, you brought up, um, um, Thomas got Thomas Edison and his dream about the light bulb fill in. So he was struggling trying to figure out how, how to make, how to make electricity work, how to do this. And in he had a dream where he saw the light, he saw how the filament in the light bulb would work, and he was like, oh my God.

So it just, it made things easier. It was just more efficient. And then even Albert Einstein to bring him up again, he, there was a dream. He had [00:20:00] that very famous dream when he was 13 years old where he was. Sledding through the Alps, and he was with his friends and he hit some ice and he went sledding so fast that he broke the down barrier in his dream.

And he went into this realm where every answer to every question resided. It was blissful, it was euphoric. And it left such an imprint on him that throughout the rest of his life, he said that whenever he was that crossroads was stuck, didn't know what to do, he would go back to that memory of that dream and it would alter his consciousness, it would elevate him in some way, and then he would reverse engineer from that space back to where he was, and inevitably the solutions and the answers would come.

So it's just efficient. To pay attention to dreams. So I'm kind of, of the mindset that I, I feel like I'm, you know, I didn't know that I was gonna be this way, but I'm like publicist for dreams. I [00:21:00] just want people's lives to be smoother, easier. Selfishly, I want my own life better, but when I'm around people that are living more blissful, happy lives, they tend to be nicer to me.

They tend to be more generous, more kind. And if I wanna live in a world like that, then I want more people paying attention to their dreams because I, I've witnessed firsthand that the, the power of dreams to make a person more compassionate a. For people to be able to see what's been in their blind spot, for them to be able to let go of an issue that's haunted or plagued them their whole life.

There's so many, there's so many stories and I've written a number of them in my book, but, um, I've got one that's kind of coming to mind. Are you open to it or did you wanna Yeah. Comment on what I was just saying. I'd 

Cody: love, go ahead. 

Kelly: So Robert Haas is a big dreamer. He was the president of the International Association for the Study of Dreams, but he had been in corporate America and very dedicated, um, in the tech [00:22:00] world and in the corporate side of the tech world.

And it was during a recession, everybody was getting laid off and he was. Determined to go down with the ship. He wasn't gonna leave the business. He was having headhunters and people coming wanting to recruit him. He was like, no, I'm, I'm a committed person and I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna stay. And there kept being this one particular person that was calling saying, come on, I'll double triple the offer.

And he was like, no, this is what I'm doing. And so he has a dream that he's on this dark kind of submarine. It's like, but it's like a ship. And he hears himself saying, wow, we're sinking. And he's like, you know, I'm gonna go down with this ship. But then all of a sudden he hears a voice that says, you can walk out that door.

And he says to the voice, what door? There's no door. And all of a sudden a door appears and he hears the voice again. You can walk through that door. So he's scared, he's [00:23:00] terrified, he's like, oh my God, I'm underwater. If I open, if I'm logical about it, even in the dream, I open the door, I'm gonna die. He opens the door and he doesn't die.

He ends up on this kind of treasure island that's beautiful paradise, and he's so excited that, that he's in this beautiful place and he hears himself say, wow, I had gone down with the ship. I would've never gotten to experience this. He wakes up and immediately knows he's gotta leave. So he gets to work.

The next phone call is that same recruiter, and he says, I'll take a meeting. And that ended up being the most prosperous, uh, I think that he ever did. He, it, it was doubled. His salary tripled, his wellbeing, his happiness. Everything was so much better because he did that. He wouldn't have done it if he didn't pay attention to that dream.

So the dream was there. It's kind of like that whispering from our higher self. It's always [00:24:00] happening. Most of the time we don't hear it. And if we hear it, we just go, that was ridiculous. That's so silly. I'm not gonna do that. But he listened and he acted on it and he got a result that was even better than what he could have imagined.

So that's what's happening to all of us, the universe. And then my dog, that's Pearl. Always trying to upstage, but we're, the universe is always on our side and the question is whether or not we will listen to our dreams or not. 

Cody: And so there's so much potential benefit that we could derive. I, I don't know if using the capitalize on your dreams is appropriate, but in some ways it's, I, I know that we have this idea of being able to have an intention before bed, and then there's the aspect of waking up.

And then I know whenever I have dreams, sometimes I will try to write it down as quickly as I can because otherwise it's easy to forget. Yes. And I'm wondering what, what are the kind, what's, what's the routine that you would advise people in [00:25:00] order to, to really be able to pay attention to dreams? Like, like before bed and after bed?

What are you recommending people do? 

Kelly: Okay, great. Well, I just wanna say that, you know, you just said is so important. Like, you have to write it down immediately because what's happening in our mind, your show is the mind hack. It's, you know, we, we we're such different people in our dream. In our, when we're remembering a dream, and then when we switch gears and we become our regular ordinary selves, it's almost like Dr.

Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. They're almost unrecognizable to each other. So it's the handing off of the baton if like the dreaming self is so easy to minimize by the logical self. I mean, I even do it sometimes. I was telling a dear friend of mine the other day, she said, oh, you got any good dreams lately? And I was like, nothing lately.

And then I was like, oh my God, that's so not true. I mean, [00:26:00] like every little dream has gold in it. It's so easy to minimize brush under the carpet. So here's the routine in the moment before. So actually let me back up. In a, when we're in like a journaling state, a meditative state. Identify what it is you're working on, what it is you'd like to dream fest in your life, which is manifest using your dreams.

Think of a, whatever that might be. Is there anything that you're working on, Cody, is there anything that you wanna share or should I use something more hypothetical? 

Cody: Uh, I'm, I'm putting, putting on the spot, I'm putting on a, in an ai, an AI app at the moment, and I have been kidding some roadblocks. 

Kelly: Oh, perfect.

Okay. So let's talk about that. So, so this is great because it's specific. So it would be, we could say the, the goal is the, is success with your AI ip, is that, or how would you [00:27:00] phrase that? Uh, s Say it again. 

Cody: I didn't quite catch 

Kelly: that. Success with your ai, um, intellectual property. 

Cody: Yeah. That, that's the, that's in the long term.

Yeah. That, that's a, that's the long term goal. So, so success with 

Kelly: your AI project. Okay. So that's it. So let's just start here. So I would, I would have you just journal that down and then I would have you imagine that you've got it. That, that everything that you are wanting, bam. You got it. So how does that feel?

I'm totally putting you on the spot, but if it was realized right now of what you wanted, you had, it was, it was all here, what, what would that do for Cody? 

Cody: Like my sense, a sense of excitement, uh, accomplishment. Like I'm progressing. 

Kelly: Yes. Excitement, accomplishment. A [00:28:00] sense of progressing. Very, very good. So let's go one or two levels deeper.

So you're excited and you feel that you're accomplishing something and you're progressing. Then what does that give you?

Cody: It's the, it's the aspect of self-actualization, of doing the thing that I feel pulled towards doing. Um, it's, it's giving me that self-confidence like I'm, uh, I'm actually fulfilling my quest or, or on, on that path of meaning. Because if it not doing that might be the opposite. And that's, uh, that's a dark place to feel constantly second guessing yourself.

Kelly: Oh, right. Okay. So that, you just said a lot there. So it's like, um, that you're on, you're on your, your path, you're on your quest, and it's like that path of meaning and you're, you're in that [00:29:00] versus like kind of knowing that that other little, little thing is right there. Like, what if you don't, if you don't do that, then what's the, like, what's the consequence?

So, so explore that. What is that? If, if you don't get the thing you want, then. You don't get to be on the path of meaning and be on this quest, then what is that alternate life? 

Cody: Well, I, I suppose it's, it's the, it's the fear of failure. And not that I would be unhappy, but I, not that I couldn't find happiness in other areas of life and that I could still have a happy and fulfilled life, but it would be that this, this one thing that I set out on, that I wasn't able to accomplish, and it would, it would kind of drag me down a little bit.

And it would drag you down? I feel like a, a disappointment in myself. 

Kelly: Yes. Okay. Very, very, very good. You're doing great. So, so you would cope, like if it didn't happen, of course you would figure out how to, like, all right, well I'm gonna find fulfillment in other areas, [00:30:00] but, but there would be a sense of disappointment.

So, so then coming back to the fulfillment, the achievement of this, this, this product, this, this AI venture. It would give you, like, you would, you would no longer fear that disappointment. So that would be just kind of off your shoulders and in, in its place. There'd be this feeling of being on track on purpose with the quest.

So let's go one level deeper. So you've got that, and then what does that give rise to? What is that, what's the energy that you're then able to access that you might not have otherwise? 

Cody: A sense of that, that I can do anything. And, um, 

Kelly: yeah, the sense that I can do anything. Is there a feeling that comes along with I can do anything?

Is there like a, if you [00:31:00] can just sort of track a little bit of the body sensation of I can do anything. 

Cody: I, I guess I, I feel like, uh, a combination of like stars and, and hearts Yeah. Kind of. In my chest and yeah, and, and just the, the, the sense of self-love, but then also having the capacity to, to love others in such a way that they're able to find self-love for themselves.

Um, because I, I've, I've always wanted empowerment, right? And coming from a, a place where I, I had to struggle, uh, for a very long time to get to that point of self-love myself and wanting to see that in others. Okay, you just hit bold right there. 

Kelly: You get an a plus in this exercise, Cody. So what it comes, so there's that feeling of stars and hearts and the chest that really is like self-love and with kind of brimming over with self-love.

There's suddenly more love to give to others. And your, your [00:32:00] life has always been about empowerment and now you really can, you can really empower people. 'cause you're not worried about yourself. You're not in your own way. You're not struggling with your own disappointment or fear of disappointment.

You're like, that's handled. So now you've got this. All of this energy can be like, what can I do for you? How can I empower you? Because I'm good now. I'm good. I mean, it's kind of like if you're walking down the street and you are, you've got a really bad stomach ache and you walk past somebody. That's, that's hobbling along and asking for change, you might not even see them because you're, you're literally in pain.

You can't, it, it pain narrows our focus and narrows it on us. But when we're not in pain, in fact we're feeling full of stars and hearts in our chest. We have a radar that we didn't otherwise have, and we can see, oh my goodness, this person needs a smile. Lemme pick this flower and hand it to them, [00:33:00] or give this stranger a hug, or let me, you know, bend an ear to a friend and say, what's going on with you?

Like, we don't have that capacity otherwise. So you nailed it. So what you just did, I'm cutting chills, is you've done the ego goal slash soul goal exercise. So the ego goal, and there's nothing wrong with ego goal, we keep it, the ego goal is, I wanna have success with my AI business. So you keep that, but you understand what's beyond that.

It's, it's about self love and you were able to access it in this little exercise without a single thing changing in the outer world. Not a single thing just changed, although maybe it did. We don't know. You might look at your bang, not after we're done, see what shifted. But, but [00:34:00] nothing had to change. You didn't have to have your AI business do anything different in order to access this momentary feeling of self love and to also access the generosity of your spirit that wants to empower others.

So we would call, we could say self-love or just the word empowerment becomes your soul goal. There's the ego goal and the soul goal. Is that making sense so far? So now what you do before bedtime is, well, you could even do it in your waking life, is you find some object, something physical that represents both of these things.

The AI is this and empowerment. So it might be a heart, it might be a little heart rock, or it might be a picture of, uh, who knows what. Sometimes [00:35:00] it's a picture out of a magazine or sometimes it's like a picture of yourself, like at your happiest moments. It could be a rock, it could be feather, it could be whatever you, whatever you want it to be.

But something physical could even just be a note that you write and you stick it on your nightstand. So right before you go to bed, you're gonna look at that thing and you're gonna touch it, and you might hold it in your hand and remind yourself, oh yeah. What I'd like my dreams to help me with is my AI business, but also I want to activate this sense of empowerment, the sense of empowerment, the hearts and stars in my chest, even now, and I'm open to mystery of what that might look like.

Write dreams. I hand over the baton to you and now I'm going to sleep. So that's what the pre-B bedtime ritual looks like, and you [00:36:00] really only need to do it once. You know the we, we took a long time identifying what this old goal is. Once you do that, now you're off to the races for the next, for the next month.

You don't have to do that again, although you might revisit it. And then you wake up in the morning with any little piece of dream that you had, any little piece or a long dream, and you consider. As you write down your dream, you have to, like you said, you have to write it down, you have to put it in your phone, put it in your app, put it somewhere in the physical realm.

And then you look at that dream from the perspective of curiosity. How is this potentially an answer to my, the question I posed before I went to sleep? You know, help me with my, with my ego goal and my soul goal, how, how might this dream be? Giving me some insight about that. So you meditate on that, you contemplate [00:37:00] that, and if you start to notice an action, like, oh, I need to call.

So, and. I need to call that kid from high school that I heard is doing really well in the AI world. I'm gonna make a phone call. Um, or there might be something that came out of the dream that yellow, that weird yellow thing. Maybe I'm a, maybe the, the branding on the app should be yellow. I wouldn't have thought of that before.

I mean, who knows? But look at how the dream might be. Giving some guidance, some advice that's very pointed toward your ego goal and your soul goal. You take some form of action. That's, that's basically the nutshell of dream of fasting. 

Cody: Hmm. Yeah. Uh, that, that's amazing. Uh, thank you. There's, there's so much there.

Um, it seems like a, an important piece of it is doing some kind of exercise prior to really understand even what, what the ego goal is, but also what the sole [00:38:00] goal is. Because everything, everything behind what our ego desires, there is some deeper level that we often don't notice or don't pay attention to.

And that's how we don't end up in a path, a life path where after 30 years we're questioning how the heck do we end up here? Um, so by paying attention to that, that inner part. And so often we don't pay attention to the subconscious. Uh, it's only, you know, we, we only get those thoughts from the shower because we're deriving ourselves of all the external stimuli.

And unless you have a conscious process like say meditation or something, I call reverse meditation actually, where yeah, I try to sit and I try to let my thoughts bubble up, and then if it's interesting, I go down that path. Ooh, I like that. Is, unless we have a practice of mm-hmm. Being able to talk to our subconscious, we often don't really understand or don't really know what it's trying to tell us.

And dreams are an avenue that is very much underlooked. You know, we all hear about, [00:39:00] uh, the aspect of how to protect your sleep. And sleep is the most important part. And, you know, minimize blue light. But nobody really talks about how to listen to our dreams or what our sleep is trying to tell us, because that can be an important part of helping to guide us the life that we, we want to live.

So, so thank you for that. I think that's, it expands my mind in terms of what's possible with our dreams, especially with setting an intention prior. I love this aspect of having an external object that, you know, after we do this exercise, we really understand what it is that we want, but then as a means of reminding us, you know, having a little object next to your next on your nightstand, that before you go to bed, maybe you hold it, you rub it, you think about that thing that you, you really desire or the problem that you're going through, or the pain Yes.

Um, or whatever it is you wanna accomplish. Um, and then you, you set that as an intentionality, and then you go to sleep and then you let the, [00:40:00] you let whatever happens in the universe happens. Um, but yeah, I think you explained it really, really well. Uh, and so I'm, I'm, it's, uh, something I'm definitely gonna try, uh, now myself.

Kelly: That's awesome. I can't wait. You gotta get back to me and let me know how it goes.

Cody: I dunno if you can. I definitely will. 

Kelly: That's great. I have, um, a lot of people say, okay, well now that I have a dream, I I'm paying attention to dreams, but they're so strange, what do I do with them? So I have a jet set dream interpretation formula that, that, that people use. I have it, I, I articulate it with a lot more clarity with meditations that go along with it in the book in dream manifesting.

But, um, I could give you a little nutshell about what Jet set, the jet set dream interpretation formula is, if you're open to it. Sure. So, [00:41:00] um, the idea of Jet, I mean, we all like to, I don't know, not everybody, but many of us like to travel and if we, we wanna go beyond where we are. I mean, this is, dream manifesting is an aspirational.

Program. It's about going from where we are to where we prefer to be. So, and flying tends to be a really, one of the best kind of dreams. Have you ever had a dream where you were flying Cody? 

Cody: Uh, yes. Yes. 

Kelly: How did it 

Cody: feel? I've also had a, a lucid dream before as well, but I think those are the best. 

Kelly: Those are great.

Yeah, absolutely. So Jet Set is kind of in that space. We wanna be part of the jet set. We wanna be people that fly in our lives and we're, we're take ourselves lightly and we can kind of be nimble and move around and get things that we want. So J-E-T-S-E-T-J stands for? Just the facts, ma'am. So when you remember a dream, any dream, you just write it down or record [00:42:00] it exactly as you remember without any judgment.

Do you have a dream that we could run through the jet set formula that we could so we can make it a little more actionable to. To your audience? If not, I can just tell you what, not off the top of my head. Okay. Okay. Um, actually, I'll, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use one of a dream that I haven't put through jetset yet.

I'm a little scared. I'm gonna try it though. There sort of this, in my dream last night there was sort of this little lemonade stand yard sale kind of a thing happening down the street, and they were making something called die like. And I was like, short for Diana, like, lady die. But I was like, and I, you know, and I was like, okay, my mom was supposed to go pick it up and bring it to my house, but I thought she's gonna get lost.

I need somebody to help her. So. [00:43:00] Then I had this thought that this was all for my podcast, and I thought, I am doing way too much for my podcast. I'm putting way too much effort in here. Okay. So that's what I, that's my dream. That's the, just the facts, ma'am. So I would, so I just, at least I wrote that down.

So, and then you go to the E, that is for the emotion in the dream. There wasn't a big emotion in the dream, but I would say there was kind of concern or worry about my mom. And there's also a sense of die. I was like, oh, it die. You know, so many, there's, the word play is so interesting, short for Diana. Lady die, but then, oh my God, die, is somebody gonna die?

Oh my God. And then also die is something that stains and, and then there was this little bit of exhaustion around my podcast. I'm doing a lot, I've been rebranding my podcast like, so rebranding is kind of like Rey, it re like recreating [00:44:00] the wheel. So that's just the emotion. The T is for the title. So we've got just the facts, ma'am.

E for emotion, T for title is if it were a movie. So first title that comes to my head, and I don't know what I, if I've titled this one yet, it would be. Die. Oh, I don't like this title, but it would be trying to get the die from the coroner back to my house. Do I even want it would be the subtitle. Do I even want it?

Wow. See, it's working like you, like each question brings you a little bit deeper into it. So then there's the S. The S is for the standout symbols and what they mean to you. So I mentioned a couple things. I've got a podcast, this thing would related to my podcast. I've been doing a lot of work to rebrand and, and re kind of dip it into die.

And also what is die [00:45:00] like? Okay, yes. It could be somebody. I mean, my God, it seems like every time I turn around, somebody's dying. So I may be having to, I'm, I'm kind of, but I'm always trying to prevent that from happening. And mom, my mom's getting a little bit wobbly in her older years, so I'm very concerned about her.

So this might be about the emotion that comes through in the standup symbol about my mom. Maybe it means I need to go see her. I need to take, I need to be a better daughter with my mom, so that I'm starting to get a sense of that. We've got the e The next E is for embodiment. So this is where we take the dream out of just being an intellectual activity.

We bring into the body and we feel, we, we imagine what part of this we're feeling. So I'm gonna, and we always, and I always suggest that we pick at least one aspect of the dream to feel, to embody. So right now I'm gonna pick my mom and I, all of a sudden [00:46:00] I'm feeling emotional about her. I'm feeling like I need to, um, if I was my mom.

I'd be feeling a little bit helpless and a little bit like I've done. I've done a lot and, and maybe people do need to help me now. And I would ask, what, what does she think about Kelly? And she'd be like, I like it when Kelly helps me. And it's just all of a sudden. And so now it, so just by even thinking about putting the energy of that dream in my body, it brings me to the last letter, which is T for tangible.

So what is this dream driving me to do tangibly in my life? So immediately I'm gonna call my mom as soon as I get finished talking with you, and I'm gonna make a plan to go see her and to potentially explore. I don't know. I mean, I might have her, I know I might explore like even because [00:47:00] Lady Die seemed to be something.

So I feel like that's kind of a piece. Um, um. There's a piece to explore there. So there's a lot of unanswered questions still, but there's, but it leads me to some form of action. And if my big goal, 'cause I'm, my book is about lunch, so I've got big plans for my book launch so that we could say that's my ego goal, but my soul goal is about loving with my full heart, very similar to you.

I would say the bottom of all of our, all of our ego goals, the soul aspect is so that we can feel at liberty to love more. So if my dream was giving me some feedback about that saying, why don't you funnel some of that towards your mom? And maybe that will also give something back to you so that you don't feel guilty like you're being a bad daughter.

You'll feel, you'll feel better about yourself, that you're being loving to somebody even, even if you [00:48:00] still have a lot on your plate. Take time. Jet set, just the facts, ma'am. E for emotion, T for the title, if it were a movie, S for the standout symbols and what they mean to you. And then the second Y is for the embodiment aspect.

And you can embody all the primary symbols in the dream, the airplane, the tsunami, the the coffee cup, whatever you just say, wow, if I was a coffee cup, how would I feel? I'm feeling empty or I'm feeling a little too jittery, or I'm feeling, I don't know, hot. And then the tea is for the tangible. What physical action are you gonna take in your working life to honor the wisdom of the, 

Cody: and, and so I have to ask, I was, I was going through some of my own dream logs when you were, when you were mentioning that.

And I had everything from like, uh, Russia invading the US right to. Arguing with [00:49:00] somebody over HIPAA compliance and in, I think in those dreams, they could be correlated to, well, when Russia first invaded Ukraine, or yes, when, uh, the, the day before, I had an argument with that person. And so often in my experience, a lot of the dreams, you can find a way to relate it back to, um, some experience in your, in your recent past.

And so when you're talking about your method of kind of, of breaking down a dream and looking at the facts and emotions, the titles and the tangible, uh, outcome that you could perceive from it, is that in relation to having this intentionality exercise prior where you're focusing on something you want in the future?

Or is it, could this be applied to this random thing of like. Russia and beating the us Is there is that is, is there a, do you sometimes question like, well, do I need to do this exercise for this dream? Is it for everything? How do you kind of classify that? What do you say about that? 

Kelly: So, yes, and [00:50:00] so every dream is like a diamond with multiple facets.

So there's so many things that any one dream is helping us with. In fact, you could give me the, just the dream about Russia invading Ukraine. We just, we could talk about that dream for the next 10 years, never get to the bottom of it. We could say yes, it's absolutely about what's going on in the world.

And it's also, there's also the inner aspect because from one perspective, everyone in the dream is an aspect of self. So it's also what is my inner Russia that's invading some inner Ukraine aspect of myself. So what? Ooh, I can feel that, you know, there's some reality there. And then if I think about the soul goal and the ego goal, wow, it might be saying, you know, maybe, maybe there's some hint of wanting to, to wanting [00:51:00] to make sure that my app is, um, that, that maybe I give it or I give it to people that, that need it the most.

Or maybe it's gonna have a humanitarian aspect because of that dream that it might not have had otherwise. So I would say yes, and we always wanna have this, the, the goal, the ego goal, and the soul goal as kind of the backdrop of everything. Because, and we always wanna at least say, well, is this giving me any breadcrumb?

Inevitably it is, even if it's slight. But if you think about a trajectory even of an airplane, like, you know, every little slight movement. Moves us at a, like, either it gets us closer to where we wanna go. So those little TV changes might not be so tiny in the end. So I look at dreams, feel, sense of how is it helping me?

Maybe with everything or with, you know, my, my relationship with my mom. But I can also say it's my inner mother. [00:52:00] It's my inner mother that's needing some support. That's the part of me that's feminine, that is nurturing. Maybe I need to pay more attention to her and, and turn that on myself and maybe bring that to the people in my life.

Bring it to my husband who's probably like, hello, what about me? Like, he could use a little TLC as well. So it's kind of, it's looking at it externally and also internally, so. Excellent, excellent question, Cody. 

Cody: And so I'm sure you deal with a lot of people who kind of say that dreams are, are meaningless and.

With dream investing, you argue that every dream contains kind of practical, practical wisdom, and there's something that we can take from that and find a meaning out of it. But how do you know not to go too far? How do you know when you're trying to derive meaning outta something that's probably not there?

Or maybe you're trying to interpret something so hard and you don't know when to stop [00:53:00] because inevitably, we probably all have dreams that we know because we're trying to interpret them. Right? And how do we know we're interpreting it correctly? And in fact, I would, I would argue it doesn't matter whether we're interpreting them correctly, what matters is if we're deriving a positive benefit out of our interpretation, but Right.

Overall, I'm curious what you, what you say about this. 

Kelly: Uh, that I love. I love where you just went with that. So yeah, it's, are we going to prove in a court of law that our dreams are helping us? Not necessarily. Although there's plenty of data. That, uh, for people that contributed profoundly to, to science, to industry, to, to psychology, to um, to even to entertainment.

People that, that leverage their dreams to help them make their big contribution to life in general. So if that's not data, then I don't know what is, I mean, there's, there's, so we already have [00:54:00] proof, but is there one definitive meaning to our dreams? No, I don't think there is. I mean, I discover when I'm in a, when I'm facilitating a dream group, we'll have one person talk about their dream.

So it's this, I picture that their dream is like the diamond and place it in the center of the circle. And based on where you're sitting, the light's gonna hit it a little differently. Gonna notice one facet of the diamond that maybe nobody else did on the other side of the room, and maybe two people are gonna go, oh my God, I had the same idea, but.

As you go around, there's so many associations, and yes, you could, you could get obsessed and not do anything else with your life, but focus on your dreams all day long to the exclusion of food, paying attention to the people you love and to not working. And so I'm like, no, no. That's not what we wanna do.

We just, I wanna be, I'm a, like I said at the beginning, I'm a practical mystic. I'm a busy person. I, [00:55:00] I don't want to spend all day on my dreams. I just give them a few minutes in the morning. And I, at the very least, like this morning, I, I had to get up early, had to get out. I've been gone all morning. I didn't have a chance to work on the dream, but I at least recorded it.

So I had it so that when the conversation came out, I had something. It was this, I got a dream. On most days, I have a dream that I'm carrying around with me. I don't, I don't recommend that people go way too far. However, on some dream retreats I have when in my upcoming dream investing class, everybody gets a chance to work a dream and the opportunity of being able to have support shining light on the dream, it is.

It's kind of like that saying in the Bible, my, in my father's house, there are many mansions. When you shine a light on one dream, all of a sudden the me mansions of that dream begin to reveal [00:56:00] themselves and you're like, oh, this stupid dream about my dream tennis shoes is changing my life. I mean, that it can happen.

So when you. So, yes. And we wanna be practical in our day-to-day life and just give a little bit of attention to our dreams quickly. Simply, that's what Dream manifesting is about. I mean, ultimately it's a big book, but at the end of the day, it's about a five minute practice. A like one minute before you go to sleep, and then about five minutes when you wake up in the morning.

That's it. That's the primary Dream Festing formula. And then each week gives you an opportunity to look at dreams a different way. It's a workbook ultimately, but, um, and save the deep dive for when you wanna dream retreat. If you're, if you in a Dream Festing class and it's an appropriate moment, you've set the time aside, it's not gonna hurt you.

It's not gonna, it's not gonna cost you your relationship or your business, then go into the deep dive. But otherwise, keep it [00:57:00] as simple. Use the kiss method. Keep it simple, sweetie. Yeah, 

Cody: I, I love that you changed it. That, that last word. Um.

But, but, so overall you're advocating is that this is something that could be done just within a few minutes a day. You don't need to go overboard and trying to, to hyperly and getting lost in trying to interpret what your dreams mean. And perhaps the more often you do this as a consistent basis, perhaps you'll, you'll learn and become better at interpreting your dreams.

Because I think perhaps a part of it isn't just interpreting what your what, what the most recent dream was and how it could relate, but also perhaps asking yourself, have any of the dreams that I've had recently in which I've had a interpretation, has it actually panned out? And I think by also paying attention to your previous interpretation.

Could also [00:58:00] help your, your intuition so that you actually become better over time at interpreting what your dreams are trying to tell you. And that, that I think could have a profound impact on somebody's life, is that if you're able to truly connect with your dreams, which I view as a way of connecting with your subconscious, then you're going to have greater clarity over your decisions, uh, reduced anxiety.

You're going to feel perhaps like there's something else out there that's bigger than yourself that's guiding you in life, that you're not alone. And you know, endless amounts of benefits to feeling more connected with your subconscious. And again, the more you do it, the better you become. Um, so I love that.

Oh 

Kelly: yeah, you, you nailed it. And, and it was interesting. One of the things you said, you'd look back and you see these dreams panned out. And what I would say is that the dreams. The dreams themselves are their information. [00:59:00] But then what we do with it is, is the panning out of things. For example, one, one, um, example in the book is, is, what do I call it?

I call her Jennifer and the boy, I believe I changed her name of it, but she, um, she had a dream. So she was, what was her sole goal? Her ego goal was to meet the man of her dreams. She was tired of being a single woman and her, her, we could say the sole goal aspect so that she could be more loving so that she could love and she could be more fulfilled.

So that was her, that was what she was. Dream besting. She has a dream. She's was in my dream group a couple years, two years ago. She has a dream that basically the nutshell of the dream is that she's riding a bike and she's having this incredible happy time. I'm riding her bike. And so as we talked about it, we're like, you know, we could talk about what is a bicycle, all of these [01:00:00] things.

But basically at the end of it, she realized that her tangible action was gonna be that she was gonna go to the beach that weekend and rent a bike, something she hadn't done. And she was a kid. And so she does it, and while she's down there at the beach renting a bike, she's checking out what bike she's gonna get, and she realizes there's some cute guy that's checking her out.

She's checking out the bikes and they end up riding bikes together, and they're married now. So she met the guy while she was doing something. She took an action based on her dream, so she didn't take that action. She might look back at that dream in her journal and say, that was ridiculous. That had nothing to do with me meeting the guy.

But because she took an action, inspired by the dream, she met the guy that he came, the lover life, that [01:01:00] activated that deep love. So it's not just putting the burden of proof on the dream, it's putting it back on us. Are we gonna take some action? Even if it's silly, I always say like, if it's, you know, play a song that you heard in the dream or wear something strange from the back of your closet that you normally wear on Halloween.

You know, wear it or, you know, call somebody that you haven't called in a long time. If they, if they were, if they showed up in your dream or you know, just, even if it's just looking something up. Some people, my goodness, I mean, I know somebody helped solve a murder because they heard this weird word in their dream, a word that didn't exist.

It looked up the word online, just like, and I can't remember what the word was, but that lead. Down the rabbit hole of her finding this friend from high school. She knew where she had been and she had, she, there was some in [01:02:00] information that she realized she had that helped the detective solve the case of this missing person.

So, I mean, it, it, it wasn't what she thought, but it's like, do something to honor the strangeness or the wisdom of, of the dream. And the wisdom is often cloaked in strange clothing. In fact, I like say, I have a TED talk that's coming out soon and one of the things I say is most people don't pay attention to dreams because they're weird.

But if we consider the origin of the word weird in old the England Weird was spelled with a y which is kind of weird, but it, it used to mean one who stands in both worlds. And isn't that what we're looking for? Isn't that what we all really want to be in this world, but not of it? To be here, but also have access to the vastness of our intelligence that's beyond what we can quantify [01:03:00] in this logical criminal state.

And if we can do that, then we're living the dream. We're doing what we came here to do.

Cody: Yeah. And by, by not judging our dreams, we're, we're able to apply whatever insights we're able to, to, to extract from them. Um, just like it's. Best not to judge yourself or judge others because then you're able to come from a, from a perspective, a neutral perspective, that gives you greater kind of awareness, um, insights.

So I think the same could be set for our dreams, is that mm-hmm. They, they do have a purpose. They do have a place that they are trying to tell us something perhaps. We don't always get an, an insight out of them, but it's better for us to consider paying attention to them rather than just forgetting them all together.

Exactly. 

Kelly: And it's not easy. There's [01:04:00] three dream conundrums that I talk about, that it's dreams are, first of all, they're slippery, they're hard to catch. If you don't pay attention to them within the first few minutes of being awake, 98% of your dream content is gone, just gone. So it's hard. They're slippery and, and secondly, they're weird.

Like I, like I said to you, you know, and most people where our brain is wired to reject anything that doesn't immediately make sense to us. It's, it's how we survive. Because there's such a glut of data and content coming at us. We just go, Nope, that's irrelevant. That's irrelevant. So that we can navigate better.

From a survival perspective, it sort of makes sense to just delete things that are weird. And also we don't know, even if we do have a dream that we do remember, we often don't know how to make sense of it because they are, [01:05:00] they make us feel stupid. But if we have the debt set formula in our backpack or in our back pocket, then we always have a way to be able to translate this strange language that's actually our.

Our native tongue, and as you said, when we pay attention and become more fluent in the language of dreams, we actually become more fluent in the language of our spirit and our soul. It does tend to elevate us and it puts us more in that middle place between worlds where we don't need substances to get high, we don't need to get wasted, we don't need to get drunk.

We don't need to lean on those things to, I mean, everything we do from an addiction standpoint is to get us to that place where we're capable of being naturally, and our dreams are one way. It's not the only way, but it's one way that we all have access to. You don't need a special gift, a special talent.

You don't have to be born psychic. It's something [01:06:00] that we all have, which is another way of saying being a shaman, we're all capable of being somebody that can kind of bend reality a bit. And if we bend reality, we can do it for ourselves. And what that can do is coming back to what you talked about, Cody, if you had things that you're really wanting to create, it's not so much about the thing itself, it's about what you are capable of being.

When you feel that that chip is off the shoulder, that love that's always been there, that you always have had since you were a little boy, but you feel more at liberty to give that love. And my God, this world needs it. It needs it now. That's my 

Cody: soapbox. Well said. And, and I know dreams and some way trying to go down this journey.

It can be hard. It's not as easy perhaps as it, as it kind of sounds like it might be. So I know that you have, we have the book coming out soon. Yes. [01:07:00] And then I believe you offer some coaching and workshops as well. 

Kelly: Yes, exactly. So there's a dream manifesting with an I in the middle Dream, I-F-E-S-T-I-N-G.

It's coming out in September, but it's available now for pre-order. And I, and I give some gifts away for people that pre-order. If you go to dream festing.com, you'll get a free dream time meditation from me to help accentuate the dreaming throughout book, the Dream Manifesting book I, I offer certain meditations to help you.

Emphasize certain aspects of what you're wanting to create or help you to go deeper, and I will those, those meditations will soon be available on Dream festa.com as well. Right now I have quite a number of different sleep time meditations, but there's more to come, so the meditations are. You can already get those.

You don't have to wait for the book to come at you. There's a lot that you can already get from there. And I will have a dream [01:08:00] investing workshop coming around. Um, I think the signups are going to end around the beginning of September. It's filling up, and that class is gonna start in October. So, um, it'll be 12 weeks.

We'll follow exactly what's in the book. Um, for some people, uh, they love the artist's way, and a lot of times people say, this is the, this is like the artist's way for dreamers or it's the dreamy version of the artist's way. So it's a 12 week workbook to help you really have an experience. It's not just a theoretical experience, but a embodied, embodied experience of how to work with dreams.

And so you have a, a transformational experience. 

Cody: And I think that's a great, great place to end. So really huge Thanks. Please for Dr. Kelly Sullivan Walden for joining us and sharing your remarkable insights on Dream Festing. Something I'm really going to incorporate in my [01:09:00] own routine. And so if today's discussion sparked your own interest, be sure to check out her upcoming book, dream Manifesting, and visit her website@kellysullivanwalden.com for any additional resources and for information on those workshops.

And as always, thank you so much for tuning in to the Mind Hack podcast. I'm Cody McLain. Stay curious. Keep exploring and I'll catch you in the next episode.